Insightful comment from leading NT scholar on Mark 10:45

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Interesting! Marxsen believes that Mark 10:45 is an insertion (p. 55)

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Categories: Gospels, Jesus, New Testament scholarship

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25 replies

  1. There is no textual basis on Mark 10:45 or 14:24 for that assertion. It is just an “out of thin air” assertion by a not very well known old German liberal scholar.

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    • He is a very well known scholar if you’re familiar with scholarship. The issue is not a textual one. Marxsen argues convincingly that the synoptic material (forgiveness of sins by simple repentance etc) does not require the unbiblical idea of human sacrifice for sins implied in 10:45. Therefore it is extraneous to the bulk of the synoptic material.

      Liked by 2 people

      • An assertion that is just made up out of thin air .

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      • 10:45 does not fit into the general synoptic soteriology. Ergo it was added.

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      • No; you have zero evidence.

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      • Liberal scholarship is a waste of time. I already know enough about Schleirmacker, Bultmann, Tillic, Borg, Crossan, Funk (a wicked angry man), Ehrman, Dunn (your favorite) to understand their underlying wickedness in seeking to destroy Christian faith.

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      • LOL a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

        Liked by 1 person

      • The result of all the western liberal scholarship that you promote. It is all emptiness when someone needs forgiveness at the end of life.

        You have no redemption, no savior, no mediator to save you.

        The lady pastor / minister in the clip sums up what is the result of the last 300 years of liberal scholarship like the ones you promote. like the one here.

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      • God alone is the one we worship and who is the most merciful, the most compassionate. We do not need a mediator as you vainly suppose.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Then why do you need Muhammad as the final prophet / messenger – why do you have to include him in your Shahada of faith?

        why not just have faith in the one true God of what you think is the essence of the synoptic gospels teaching about repentance; ie, your take on the Prodigal son story? (Luke 15) – just repent of your own human will power and believe in the Jewish concept of the one true God.

        But even the verse in john that you think is somehow against Jesus’ Deity condemns you, because it included “the Father and the Son, whom the Father has sent. (John 17:3 – and the sending of Jesus by the Father points to the 2 persons of the 3 person Trinity; and then John 17:5 in the same context shows Jesus is eternal and the Son and the Word who became flesh – John 1:1-5; 1:14. John 1:18 – Jesus explains who the true God is – He has explained, “fleshed out” the Father.

        It seems that Muhammad is a kind of “savior” and “mediator”, even though you don’t admit it.

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  2. This Muslim scholar says:

    the answer is that without the second half of shahada one’s religion is incomplete therefore no, it is not possible for us to get salvation without the intercession of Sayyidina Muhammad (s).

    Hajj Gabril Haddad

    Question:

    As’salamu alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barkatuhu,

    Is it possible to get salvation without the intercession of Sayedna Muhammad ( sallal lahu Alaihi Was sallam)? I have to explain it to a friend who thinks that his sins are of such a nature that any intercession by Prophet (saws) will make Prophet (saws) ashamed of him in front of Allah (swt). Thus he prays: “O Allah forgive me and do not let your beloved Prophet (saws) become ashamed of having such a follower”. Is this right?

    Answer:

    wa `alaykum salam,

    His du`a is correct and is the soul of intercession. As for your question, the answer is that without the second half of shahada one’s religion is incomplete therefore no, it is not possible for us to get salvation without the intercession of Sayyidina Muhammad (s). However, in the hadith qudsi of the succession of intercessions the very last intercession will be that of Allah Most High with Himself, on behalf of whoever is still left in hell fire among those whom He desires to bring into Paradise.
    Hajj Gibril Haddad

    see here:
    https://eshaykh.com/doctrine/salvation-without-prophets-intercession/

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  3. You have no mediator and no savior or no forgiveness, no salvation.

    Muhammad cannot save you – in the Hadith he says go to Jesus.

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  4. The Sunnah even makes up a lie that Jesus says He cannot intercede; and replaced Jesus as the final mediator / intercessor with Muhammad.

    So, the Islamic sources admit you need an intercessor / mediator – and it says here it is Muhammad.
    the guy who said, “don’t hurt me” like a baby.
    https://sunnah.com/urn/41580

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  5. Previous Scriptures (confirmed by the Qur’an, Surah 10:94; 5:47-48; 5:68) already established that Jesus is the Savior, the one mediator, intercessor, etc. 600 years before Islam.

    Islam is a 600 year too late made made religion.

    “The Qur’an is a bunch of non-sense papers put in front of a fan and somebody came along and collected them all out of order and unorganized.” (the guy who goes by “Christian Prince” – good point. That does not mean that I agree with everything he says; but I think that statement is true. It is impossible to understand the Qur’an without the Hadith giving historical context and they are collected 2-3 hundred years AFTER the Qur’an, and even then, someone has to give extensive notes and commentary to figure out the chronological order of Surahs, and sometimes there is a few verses here and there that are embedded in an earlier section.

    The Qur’an is the true “Frankenstein book”

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    • Of course your statement is nothing but ignorance. Christians who are the source of the absurd and nonsensical language try to judge Qur’an? How pathetic! How dare you?
      I mean you take personal letters in which the author sends his greetings and asks for his personal stuff to be the Word of God, so how dare you to vomit this ignorance about Qur’an?

      Do you really think this’s the word of God?
      “When you come, be sure to bring the coat I left with Carpus at Troas.”
      Or what should we say about the gospels in which Jesus suddenly pops up and suddenly disappears while the gospels are supposed to be a “historical narrative”?
      In contrast, Qur’an presents itself with a very high majestic language as a book of theology which contains history. There’s a big difference.
      However, your bible presents a story that a man went to a whore and slept with her. That’s it. What does that give me?
      What about the unnecessary repeating in 1 Cor 8&9 ? Mistake?
      Do you really compare this with Qur’an? I will say what Imam Al-Razi said “The eyes underestimate the star’s dimension. This is due to the eye, not to the star’s smallness ”

      Also, judging by the accent I think the christian pig is from Shaam (Lebanon?). Not sure though.
      Let me remind that pig of what some linguistic christian Arabs said about Qur’an.

      1) Amīn Nakhlah, christian Lebanese poet and a member in the Academy of the Arabic Language in Damascus. He said in his book (Al-Hwaa’ Al-Talq)
      “Whenever I read Qur’an, and that mazing eloquence captivates me that even covers all my sense, I start shouting! Woe to you myself! What are you doing? Don’t you remember that I’m a christian?”

      This’s exactly what Meccan disbelievers said! They used to say don’t listen to Muhammad because he will allure you with his magic (i.e. Qur’an).

      2) Faris Shidyaq, a Lebanese protestant scholar in the 19th century, He was Linguist, Writer, Journalist, and translator. Translation of the bible was assigned to him because of his eloquence in Arabic. In fact, he was invited to Cambridge, England to do that. Later, he accepted Islam and mocked some works in Arabic done by missionaries to imitate Qur’an.

      In the west, you may read what J. C. Mardrus or Johann Wolfgang von Goethe said about Qur’an.

      The christian pig is just a mouth to gain money from the ignornat christians. It’s obvious that he’s supported by them and other missionary institutions.

      Liked by 2 people

      • @ Abdullah1234

        That’s my experience with them as well. I had a Lebanese JW who I was giving dawah to one time. First, he tried to lie and say the poets Muttanabi and Labid were better than when I pressed him and showed Labid saying Quran was better than his work, he switched to: “Yeah its the most eloquent thing I heard that doesn’t mean it’s from God.” I was almost done at that point I mean you can HEAR a difference between the Arab’s poetry and the Qur’an:

        Muttanabi’s most iconic poem and verse:

        Or another of his poem’s

        Quran (I’ll even limit myself to “violent” passages):

        Surah Ahzab’s threat to the hypocrites in Medina:

        Surah Imran and fighting that missionaries love to quote:

        Lol, NO comparison. It’s just hilarious watching these people talk out of their rear ends.

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  6. Islam is a 600 year too late man- made religion.

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  7. Nobody cares what a guy coming out of a Catholic background says. He is simply wrong and has aqeedah issues moving on.

    He is included because its an acepptance of all prophets not some magical incantation. For example a Jew can believe in One God but reject Jesus or John thus making him a disbeliever because by rejecting one you reject all.

    Moving on if you weren’t retarded you can understand the Quran fine. The Quran does a magical thing called ring composition and chiasmatic structure. For example:

    Sheikh Hammidudin and Dr.Islahi have wrote entore books on this to refute idiots like you and CP and is now the general understanding in modern scholarship including orientalist. You may also refer to Dr. Raymond Farrin.

    The main issue is TRANSLATION because they keep foreign structures in English for example “to Him is your return” instead of translating it “your return is to Him” which sounds more natural. Couple that with most translators not being native English speakers and THAT is what the problrm is. Please see “Reader responses in quranic translation by Mohammed Farghal & Mohammed Al‐Masri”

    Finally instead of taking a snippet out of a sentence read the whole thing in context and people wouldn’t laugh at your constant displays of ignorance. “Dont hurt me in regards to Aisha” (i.e. if you upset my wife you are upsetting me.) Is actually a proof of prophecy because he’s referring to when she wil get into a disagreement with his cousion and others will come along like the Rafidah and abuse her. Just because you won’t defend your wife doesn’t mean anybody else won’t.

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  8. No one has interacted with this:

    Then why do you need Muhammad as the final prophet / messenger – why do you have to include him in your Shahada of faith?

    why not just have faith in the one true God of what you think is the essence of the synoptic gospels teaching about repentance; ie, your take on the Prodigal son story? (Luke 15) – just repent of your own human will power and believe in the Jewish concept of the one true God.

    and

    This Muslim scholar says:

    the answer is that without the second half of shahada one’s religion is incomplete therefore no, it is not possible for us to get salvation without the intercession of Sayyidina Muhammad (s).

    Hajj Gabril Haddad

    Question:

    As’salamu alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barkatuhu,

    Is it possible to get salvation without the intercession of Sayedna Muhammad ( sallal lahu Alaihi Was sallam)? I have to explain it to a friend who thinks that his sins are of such a nature that any intercession by Prophet (saws) will make Prophet (saws) ashamed of him in front of Allah (swt). Thus he prays: “O Allah forgive me and do not let your beloved Prophet (saws) become ashamed of having such a follower”. Is this right?

    Answer:

    wa `alaykum salam,

    His du`a is correct and is the soul of intercession. As for your question, the answer is that without the second half of shahada one’s religion is incomplete therefore no, it is not possible for us to get salvation without the intercession of Sayyidina Muhammad (s). However, in the hadith qudsi of the succession of intercessions the very last intercession will be that of Allah Most High with Himself, on behalf of whoever is still left in hell fire among those whom He desires to bring into Paradise.
    Hajj Gibril Haddad

    see here:
    https://eshaykh.com/doctrine/salvation-without-prophets-intercession/

    Like

    • @ Ken

      I’ve got to ask in all seriousness are dyslexic because your reading comprehension is atrocious.

      One reason nobody responded is that nobody cared about the foolishness you said as I already addressed it I’ll save you some time:

      Nobody cares what a guy coming out of a Catholic background says. He is simply wrong and has aqeedah issues moving on.

      He is included because its an acceptance of all prophets, not some magical incantation. For example, a Jew can believe in One God but reject Jesus or John thus making him a disbeliever because by rejecting one you reject all.

      Like

      • That is a different issue than the “guy who came out of a Catholic background”, etc.

        But Paul W. has been saying just believe like the Prodigal son in Luke 15 – go ahead – repent of our own free will without grace and pull yourself up by your own works. (Jewish Monotheism) (a misunderstanding of Jesus’ parable in Luke 15)

        Your own Islamic scholar says you need the intercession of Muhammad in the judgment day in order to make it.

        You are all alone in your own human works and efforts.

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    • I was going to write for you to teach you about the concept of intercession in Islam which differs hugely from the christian one. However, when I saw your absurd comments about the name Al-Jabbar despite of the fact that you have been schooled about it, I thought it’d be better to spare my effort and time. We are not dealing with one who’s interested in the truth here. After all, you’re a student of David Wood. You should be a shame of yourself, Ken. You’re almost the same age of my father, yet you still use these childish tactic of desperate evangelical christians? It’s really sad.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. I wasn’t talking about Paul genius. I’m talking about the “scholar” you quoted because you’re ignorant you didn’t know there were Arab Catholics which is where he comes from. He has aqeedah issues and presented no evidence for his claim. So not only did you commit an “authority fallacy” it was a bad one at that.

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  10. Yes, I know that there are Roman Catholic Arabs.
    There are also ethnic groups that speak Arabic but their ethnicity goes back to Byzantine Empire, Copts, Phoenicians,Greek, Armenians, “Rum”, Syrians, etc.

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  11. Berber groups in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, etc.

    Like

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