“Gay Muslims”

“Gay Muslims” is not an identity. From an Islamic point of view when you engage in homosexual intercourse, you don’t become gay but a sinner. Gay sex is a sin no different than lying or cheating on your wife. Nobody says “Muslim Wife Cheaters” or “Liar Muslim” because Liar and Cheater are not an identity. The only reason why Gay is an identity it’s because of the Anglo weird obsession with gender, sex and race. The rest of the world disagrees. With the decline of the Anglo world this retarded identitarianism will decline too.

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Categories: Bible, Homosexuality, Islam

Tags: ,

38 replies

  1. do you think that the comparison between theft, liars, and cheaters with being gap is a fair one?

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    • being gap? Not sure..

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      • being gay*

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      • besides which gap is a terrible brand so you shouldn’t want to be

        Liked by 2 people

      • Ah however old chap the problem lies in the fact that being gay is not an action nor an indication of action but rather a description of one’s sexual orientation whereas being an adulterer is a name of one who commits an action (a foulest of actions), the other problem with such an equivocation is that while one can stop being an adulterer, you cannot stop being gay. The Shariah as far as I am aware does not concern itself with how people identify themselves with respect to hudud but as you say it is only concerned with public acts.

        But you can stop being gap and I would heartily recommend it.

        Therefore saying you are a gay muslim is not synonymous with calling yourself an adulterous muslim or even a biscuit dunking muslim (woe unto you!)

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    • ‘According to the shariah, sexual acts outside of a legitimate relationship (i.e., marriage) are prohibited, though the punishments for various acts have differed dramatically. As has been made abundantly clear, the shariah as understood and practiced by centuries of Muslim states and scholars had no interest in poking into people’s private sex lives or punishing what seems to have been the widespread phenomenon of same-sex relationships. The policy was basically ‘Don’t ask; Don’t tell.’ But there remains little doubt that same-sex sexual acts, in particular sodomy, have been, and remain, categorically prohibited in Islam (see for a review of the evidence from the Qur’an, Sunnah, and Muslim legal discourse).’

      Dr Jonathan Brown

      https://yaqeeninstitute.org/jonathan-brown/lgbtq-and-islam-revisited-the-days-of-the-donald/?fbclid=IwAR1BxsRxoz4LFdI1FFGOjiAqXr4tKnlHBgYa8nubQA_ZwxbPhf1YX47LyMI

      Liked by 1 person

      • I’m not doubting that and this has nothing to do with my question dear boy, besides Jonathan Brown also said:

        in the context of sexuality and sexual relations, the shariah is concerned with acts, not with feelings, affections, attractions, or inclinations. Only when emotions and desires manifest themselves in speech or actions are sins committed and prohibitions violated.

        What I’m asking about is the articles contention with identifying as a gay muslim by equating it as being equally as absurd as being called a thieving muslim or a lying muslim (which of course the English language is capable of accommodating) do you think is a fair comparison?

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      • Yes it is. I think you miss the point of the comments old bean.

        Islamically, it is as absurd to identify as an “adulterous Muslim” as it is to identify as a “gay Muslim”, as only behaviour counts.

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      • Ah however old chap the problem lies in the fact that being gay is not an action nor an indication of action but rather a description of one’s sexual orientation whereas being an adulterer is a name of one who commits an action (a foulest of actions), the other problem with such an equivocation is that while one can stop being an adulterer, you cannot stop being gay. The Shariah as far as I am aware does not concern itself with how people identify themselves with respect to hudud but as you say it is only concerned with public acts.

        But you can stop being gap and I would heartily recommend it.

        Therefore saying you are a gay muslim is not synonymous with calling yourself an adulterous muslim or even a biscuit dunking muslim (woe unto you!)

        Liked by 1 person

      • . . . what seems to have been the widespread phenomenon of same-sex relationships.

        He is saying this was a widespread problem of same-sex relationships – done in private but widespread, prevalent.

        Wow. Seems that the principle of shame and honor dominates more than actually dealing with the roots of sin.

        Mark 7:20-23

        Matthew 5:27-30

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      • you are quite mistaken. This is because you dont know any muslims i assume

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      • “the fact that being gay is not an action nor an indication of action but rather a description of one’s sexual orientation”

        That is a quite recent Western way of thinking. There is no ‘being gay’ in Islam.

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      • I am a westerner monsier and while it may be true that in Islam there is no such concept as being gay it doesn’t mean that it isn’t true or fair to describe oneself in that way after all as my previous quote demonstrates the Shariah doesn’t care much about how our understanding of our feelings but only action.

        I suppose the fair question would be what is the concept of identity in Islam?

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      • The concept of a ‘gay person’ was only invented relatively recently in the West. It is not axiomatic that everyone else on earth must use these terms. There is an implied cultural imperialism in its obligatory use. It carries cultural assumptions about sexuality and identity that traditional religions reject.

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      • I would agree with you that it is not obligatory and should not be forced on people as to how they choose to identify themselves. But where do ‘traditional religions’ reject it? As far as I’m aware it is silent on such matters only referring to people based on biological sex not using descriptions for sexual attraction. While this may be a modern western concept this does not mean it is defacto wrong nor should an identity marker be consistent with thievery or lying.

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      • The Islamic tradition is aware of individuals who experience same-sex attraction and scholarly discussions displayed a sensitivity and tolerance for difference which is perhaps rare in the ummah today.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Yes and I’ve happily seen that with your discussions at speakers corner about the topic 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Dear Mr Williams

    I trust you are well. I am by the grace of God an Orthodox Christian, though I was born into the eastern Latin faith, and am at present considering entering into the monastic life. Speaking as a man who has struggled with same sex attraction for much of his life, I have come to the conclusion that God desires all of us to take up our crosses and follow him.
    For much of my life all I have wanted was to be like my fellow men who loved women as they should be loved. My unnatural thoughts toward my own gender and the difficulties stemming from them have robbed me, and all other persons who are as I am of this true and holy love in favour of something evil. The fact that I shall never be able to marry and have a family in a true and Godly way is one on these crosses. It may break ones heart to the point where it feels unbearable, but Gods will be done. I will give this tiny little cross of mine to Christ. I am aware that this is a predominantly Muslim website, but I believe that my sentiment will hopefully be well received. The idea of an active gay person claiming to be a practicing Orthodox Christian or Muslim is not only wrong, it is leading souls into darkness.
    To those persons who say that homosexuality is a ‘normal’ and apparently ‘healthy’ aspect of human existence, and still claim that they are followers of the divine will, I can only say that I fear for your souls and will pray for you. The idea that gay sexual encounters are in any way compatible to the Holy Scripture or the will of the infallible and holy church is not only wrong, it is a mockery of our Lord Christ. This pernicious heresy is particularly rife amount my Protestant and liberal Catholic brethren. Please forgive my candour, but I feel quite passionate on this particular subject.

    O Lord Jesus Christ our God, for the sake of the prayers of thy most pure Mother, our holy and God bearing Fathers, and all the saints, have mercy on us. Amen.

    God love you.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. in the context of sexuality and sexual relations, the shariah is concerned with acts, not with feelings, affections, attractions, or inclinations. Only when emotions and desires manifest themselves in speech or actions are sins committed and prohibitions violated.

    What about evil thoughts, lusting, sexual fantasies, pornography, etc. ? (Matthew 5:27-30)

    What about other kinds of evil thoughts and feelings? – sinful anger, hatred, jealousy, pride, arrogance, bitterness, unforgiveness, coveting after other people’s property (but not actually doing the stealing)

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    • Ken we have discussed this question before several times. Jesus, a Muslim prophet, aparently referred to such sins in the Sermon on the Mount. If you are unfamiliar with this passage you can read it here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

      Liked by 1 person

      • that was a weird answer you gave. That is what I am asking, and I already referred to Matthew 5. But Jesus is not a Muslim prophet.

        So, you agree with Jesus that there are sins of thought (even before actual words or actions) ?

        Seems you have a contraction in what you all are saying:

        1. Only words and actions are sinful.

        2. Thoughts can also be sinful and they are the roots and causes of words and actions.

        Therefore, there is a contradiction.

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      • Jesus was definitely not a Christian! He never called himself a born again Christian or claimed to have founded this new religion called “Christianity”. He called himself a prophet. He was a Muslim in the Quran’s sense of one who submits to God, as were Abraham, Moses, David and John the Baptist.

        There is no contradiction. It is because you have not studied Islam that you make such allegations.

        The Sharia penal code is only concerned with public actions not private behaviour. But Islam as such is concerned with righteous behaviour, compassion, goodness and the rejection of all sins.

        I’m shocked at the level of ignorance that Christians such as yourself display about islam and its teaching.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jesus taught the whole principle about how a person must be born again by the Spirit of God – regeneration, conversion, getting a new heart / spirit. John 3:1-10 And He was elaborating on Ezekiel 36:26-27

        His apostles took up the word “Christian” (a little Christ, follower of Christ) – 1 Peter 4:12-19 (see verse 16)

        12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. 14 If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler; 16 but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin [l]with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner? 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

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    • I don’t understand your question Ken?
      //What about evil thoughts, lusting, sexual fantasies, pornography//
      What about them?
      It’s obvious that christianity is so lacking that cannot differentiate between God’s law on earth because christians had gave that right to the pagan Romans, and the relation of someone with the Almighty God!

      Liked by 1 person

  4. the Anglo weird obsession with gender, sex and race.

    What is the basis of singling out “Anglo” (English, European?) on this?

    These are human problems in all cultures and ethnicities, they are just manifested in different ways.

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    • No. The obsession with sexual identity and race are pre-eminent in Western culture.

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      • It is true that public discussion and debate and political agendas and striving for equal rights in these areas are more of a western phenomenon; agreed.

        But that is because in the west, there is more diversity in west. Minorities seek political rights, etc.

        But those human tendencies manifest in different ways in other cultures. (warring tribes in Africa; shame and honor about sex in eastern cultures, patriarchy (men being the leaders in the home and politics), etc. Honor to elders, traditional values, etc.

        In the west, as traditional values are more and more questioned, the more open and rebellious people become for liberal values.

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  5. @ Ken

    If I’m following your original point about What about evil thoughts, lusting, sexual fantasies, pornography, etc. ?

    This while correct is not the correct context in regards to: “the shariah is concerned with acts, not with feelings, affections, attractions, or inclinations. Only when emotions and desires manifest themselves in speech or actions are sins committed and prohibitions violated.”

    We have two things in play:

    1. Stopping sin before it begins and a person’s intentions (VERY important and worthy of being studied in much more depth)
    2. Application of the law on a person

    Someone cannot be punished for thoughts by humans. For example, I can’t order a person’s hand to be cut off because they thought of stealing.

    Again what you’re speaking on is important and sin can be committed on a lustful look for example (which is why the Prophet(saw) ordered things like such as to lower the gaze or not be alone with a woman etc) but it’s not applicable in this situation.

    Liked by 1 person

    • @ Ken
      Oh, a p.s. Jesus(as) submitted to what God wanted and was thus a Muslim prophet.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Perfect.

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      • “submission” to God existed long before Islam came along around 610-632 AD.

        True believers in God have always sought to submit to God – Job, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, etc

        The New Testament also teaches that are to submit to God.

        The apostle Paul taught submission also.

        Romans 12:1-2
        Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

        So, are you now going to claim that the apostle Paul was a “true Muslim” ??

        You don’t own the word or concept of submission.

        It is anachronistic to apply the Islamic religion back into Jesus and the OT. It is 600 years late and a man-made religion.

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    • Ok, good; thanks for actually engaging the issues.

      Christianity believes in societal laws and decency and modesty also. Granted, the liberal and atheist / Darwinian / secular naturalism has dominated western society and slowly eroding the good societal values that existed before the “sexual revolution” of the 1960s.

      But in a way, it exposed the rottenness of hypocrisy and lack of power of external laws.

      But only Christianity also emphasizes the roots of sins in the heart and the solution to that.

      External laws don’t root out the roots of sin.

      Matthew 5:21-26 – the roots of murder are hatred and sinful anger, unforgiveness, bitterness / a revengeful spirit.

      Matthew 5:27-30 – the roots of adultery are sinful thoughts and fantasies in the heart.

      Mark 7:20-23 – the root of all sin is in the evil thought and imaginations of the heart.

      20 And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.
      21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
      22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

      Islam does not emphasis the root of the problem – it has MAINLY only external solutions of force and government. Sharia law cannot change the heart / soul of mankind, it can only enforce an external societal behavior.

      It actually stirs up more sin in secret. (Romans 7:5-13)

      For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

      6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

      7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
      8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
      9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
      11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
      12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

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      • @ Ken

        Yes, Ken, I am aware of that. Islam does not claim to be a new religion so thank you for conceding Jesus(as) was a Muslim (one who submitted) and that Islam (submission) was the religion God sent to mankind. Paul would not be a Muslim because he does not submit to God’s laws and commits idolatry.

        Anyways you cannot claim laws are hypocritical because God sent them. This is actually blasphemy on your part. To begin, Islam does focus on the root of sin I have no idea who taught you that it didn’t. There are entire books dedicated to this subject such as

        Purification of the Heart by Ibn Taymiyyah or Alchemy of Happiness by Ghazali

        Just off the top of my head. The laws were sent by God, God is perfect therefore the laws are perfect.
        God’s message focus on both inner and external purification. Every society has laws for a reason. God is All-Knowing and Wise and knows what laws to send. Even Christianity tries to use external laws. For example, when there is a rally to stop Gay marriage or abortion. You are attempting to use external law to stop an evil in society. This is the same thing with ALL the laws God sent. You have the inner part (lust looks etc) and the external part (stopping evils from spreading) they both have a part to play in stopping sin from spreading.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Anyways you cannot claim laws are hypocritical because God sent them.

        I did not say that God’s laws were hypocritical; rather, in the west, secret sins of hypocrisy were exposed in private life. People are hypocritical, not God’s laws. Because people are sinners.

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      • //Islam does not emphasis the root of the problem – it has MAINLY only external solutions of force and government. //
        I think this shows how ignorant you are, Ken in Islam. Nothing more.

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  6. Paul, thank you for being righteous. May Allah bless you and keep you and all of us safe from the attacks of our enemy–Satan.

    As this post says, engaging in gay acts is a very serious in Islam.

    Having said that the people of Lot were even more rebellious in engaging in rape and in rejecting the teachings of the Prophet Lot who God sent to them.

    To be clear though, engaging in gay acts itself is very serious sin and was a major factor to a terrible destructive punishment by God to the people of Lot.

    I wanted to share a verse from the Qur’an that I found particularly interesting… Some exegetes translate the word Al-Sayhatu as “blast” and at least one translates it as shriek.

    So the shriek seized them at sunrise. (Surah 15, verse 73) translated by Sahih International
    I used to wonder why it used that word in the past but with the compelling evidence in the news in December of 2018 of the airburst that destroyed the area known as Sodom and Gomorroh, it makes so much sense.

    https://phys.org/news/2018-12-meteor-air-years-obliterating-dead.html

    And this particular information of the airburst is unique to the Qur’an and not in the Bible

    Another miracle of the Qur’an that was impossible for an Arabian prophet 14 centuries to have known

    Liked by 2 people

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