A Secular Muslim

A Secular Muslim is someone who believes that the Creator was sufficient enough to set highly calculated mathematical and physical laws that organize planets in their orbit, but wasn’t sufficient enough to create laws that organise the human society.

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Categories: Islam, Secularism

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11 replies

  1. A secular religious believer understands that human societies develop/evolve during time. Laws that organized ancient societies hundreds or thousands years ago are to large extent anachronistic and obsolete in today’s socio-economic-political contexts.

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    • @ Agnostic
      Yes, this is true hence why fiqh exists to adapt with changing circumstances.

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      • As an add on because I realized you wouldn’t know what fiqh is. What I mean to say is that Islamic law is much more developed and robust than people (including Muslims) realize.

        Are jurisprudence branches into 3 categories:

        1. Shariah
        These are permanently placed principles (ex. no interest, establish justice, etc) or explicitly mentioned in the text.

        2. Fiqh
        These are modifiers when new situations come not mentioned in the text. For fear of length, I won’t break these down.

        3. Government type laws
        These are just everyday things such as traffic laws, littering etc. They get filtered through the above.

        Sheikh Bilal Philips has an excellent lecture series and book on this subject. With these 3 things, there is really nothing that can come up from an illiterate village to a thriving empire that Islamic law can’t adapt for.

        Liked by 1 person

      • In 2019 you forgot a fourth category for islamic law: petro dollar. I’m sure Dr. Bilal Philips has brilliant relevant ideas for organizing “the human society” today. The man with PhD thesis “Exorcism in Islam.” Just the kind of experts the world is in need of and waiting for.

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  2. Al Ghazali, one of the most prominent and influential thinkers of Islam, rejected the idea of independent natural laws. Now, in 2019, Muslim apologists present the idea “the Creator to set highly calculated mathematical and physical laws that organize planets in their orbit …” see above.
    If Muslim understanding of natural laws of physics isn’t even consistent, why on earth should anyone trust them to have correct understanding of “laws that organise the human society.”?

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    • First off that is not what Imam Ghazali(rh) was arguing against. Neil Tyson was simply speaking on a subject he had no knowledge about. Ghazali(rh) was essentially arguing against Greek philosophy and it influencing Islamic understanding. This has nothing to do with fiqh which we’re speaking on. Ghazali(rh) himself wrote Asas al-Qiyas (Foundation of Analogical reasoning) which is a book on fiqh. As a p.s. Ghazali is hardly “one of the most prominent and influential thinkers of Islam. He honestly is a minor scholar and I’ve ONLY non-Muslims say that. Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah probably has that distinction.

      So long story short we have the ability to adapt to any society or time period due to fiqh.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. @ Agnostic

    1 Poisoning the well fallacy
    2. You can’t seem to stay on topic in this discussion. What do any of your posts have to do with fiqh allowing Islamic law to adapt to various situations and it being a proof of Islam’s universal nature?

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    • That’s all he can do. The guy has absolutely no valid points to make.

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    • In 2019 there is no islamic legislative solution functioning universal in nature. Just religious hardliner wishful thinking. It is all talk but no action.

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      • @ Agnostic

        “there is no islamic legislative solution functioning universal in nature”

        Uhh… that’s not by choice. Why do you think extremist exists in the first place? They want to overturn an “Islamic government” to install an Islamic government? Yea that makes sense. The reality is you have multiple puppet dictators (whom the people don’t want) placed into power by foreign colonial entities.

        Moving on, it’s not “religious hardliner wishful thinking” our record is proven from 1,400 years of existence. In those 1,400 years we have not been an empire (or empires) on the world stage spanning multiple cultures, nations and races for less than 100 so the system works and is at it’s worst batting a 7.14% failure rate.

        But when the system is followed we start seeing magic happen. A simple example let’s take something that is in an embryo stage in Islamic thought, finances. Something that will affect everybody regardless of their religious beliefs. This system is less than 30 years old and by no means are the kinks worked out let’s see how it fared:

        “A new IMF study compares the performance of Islamic banks and conventional banks during the recent financial crisis, and finds that Islamic banks, on average, showed stronger resilience during the global financial crisis…Islamic banks contributed to financial and economic stability during the crisis, given that their credit and asset growth was at least twice as high as that of conventional banks.”

        https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sores100410a

        Would you look at that, follow divine legislation, get divine results. Not really rocket science.

        Now I know you will attempt to deny and go onto a tangent so as for last part the political turmoil in the Muslim world is actually a prophecy and once again proves Islam:

        “”Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allaah wishes it to, then Allaah will raise it up when He wishes to raise it up. Then there will be Khilaafah upon the manner of Prophethood and it will remain amongst you for as long as Allaah wishes it to, then Allaah will raise it up when He wishes to raise it up. Then there will be harsh kingship which will remain amongst you for as long as Allaah wishes it to, then Allaah will raise it up when He wishes to raise it up. Then there will be tyrannical kingship and it will remain amongst you for as long as Allaah wishes it to, then Allaah will raise it up when He wishes to raise it up. Then there will be Khilaafah upon the manner of Prophethood. Then he was silent”
        Saheeh: Related by Ahmad (4/273), from an Nu’maan ibn Basheer radiallaahu anhu. (Silsilatul Ahaadeethus Saheehah/Al-Albany)

        So leadership in Islam was:
        The Prophet (saw)
        The Rashidun Caliphate (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and Hassan)
        Sultans (The Middle Ages to Modern (WW1) and the various sultans)
        Dictators (The Muslim world today)
        Back to Rashidun Caliphate

        In conclusion,

        1. Become a Muslim
        2. The Shariah is robust and easily capable of adapting to modern times due to fiqh
        3. The Shariah is demonstrably superior to man-made legislation and is not “theoretical”
        4. Muslims are forced into dictatorships (and this coincides with prophecy)
        5. We are going to win in the end
        6. Seriously become a Muslim

        Liked by 1 person

      • Nice!

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