The Flat Earth Controversy – Analyzing the Quran and the Bible

The Flat Earth Controversy – An Analysis of the Quran and the Bible

Originally Posted on the Quran and Bible Blog

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْم

“And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);”

– The Quran, Surah An-Naziat, 79:30

            The infamous Christian apologist Sam Shamoun has claimed that the Quran refers to a “flat earth”.[1]  In this article, we will analyze his appeal to certain verses in the Quran, which he insists refer to the mythical “flat earth”.  Through this analysis, we will see the deception and stupidity of this apologist, and why he is an embarrassment to Christianity, inshaAllah.  To finish off, we look at the undeniable Biblical evidence for an actual flat earth.

Shamoun’s “Evidence”

            In his angry rant, Shamoun appealed to several Arabic words to argue for a flat earth cosmology in the Quran.  These words are:

  1. فِرَاشًا (firāshan) – Surah Al-Baqarah, 2:22

“Who has made the earth your couch…”

  1. مَدَّ (madda) – Surah Al-Ra’d, 13:3

“And it is He who spread out the earth…”

  1. مِهَادًا (mihadan) – Surah An-Naba, 78:6

“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse…”

  1. دَحَاهَا (dahaha) – Surah An-Naziat, 79:30

“And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);”

  1. سُطِحَتْ (sutihat) – Surah Al-Ghaashiya, 88:20

“And at the Earth, how it is spread out?”

  1. طَحَاهَا (tahaha) – Surah Ash-Shams, 91:6

“By the Earth and its (wide) expanse…”

As we can see, each of these words refers to the action of “extending” or “spreading” the Earth.  Shamoun argues that this somehow proves that the Earth is flat, at least according to the Quran.  So let us look at what the lexicons say about the matter.  We will be citing the authoritative Lane’s Lexicon for the meaning of these words in their proper context.[2] 

            But before we do that, it is also important to consider the meaning of another Arabic word and its variants:

الْأَرْضَ (arda)

This word literally means either the planet Earth or simply the ground (earth) upon which we walk, travel or use as a place of rest.  Here is what Lane’s Lexicon states:

lane - ard (earth)

This dual meaning will be important, as we will see.  Let us now analyze the six Arabic words that Shamoun used in his polemical diatribe. 

  1. فِرَاشًا

According to Lane’s Lexicon, the definition of this word is:

“[a] thing that is spread upon the ground…”

More importantly, with regards to its usage in Surah 2:22, the word refers to the Earth as a:

“a thing that is spread for one to sit or lie upon…”

This is why Yusuf Ali translated the word as “couch”, whereas others translated it as either “bed” or “resting place”.  Here is a screenshot of Lane’s Lexicon:

lane - farasha, quran 2-22lane - farasha, quran 2-22 (2)

But to pseudo-scholars like Shamoun, this somehow proves that the Earth must be flat. Well, not really Shamoun, because no one would argue that people do not use the ground to sit or lie upon.  That is all the verse is saying!  And remember, the Arabic word for “earth” can mean both planet Earth or simply the ground.  And as it turns out, the Bible also describes the Earth/ground in this manner:

“…who spread out the earth upon the waters, His love endures forever.”[3]

“This is what God the Lord says— the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out, who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it…”[4]

“I am the Lord, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself…”[5]

The Hebrew word used in these verses is “רָקַע” (raqa’).  We will discuss the meaning of this word later, as if we use Shamoun’s logic, it can be used to “prove” that the planet Earth must be “flat” (of course, as we will see later, the Bible does allude to a flat earth in other verses).

  1. مَدَّ

According to Lane’s Lexicon, the definition of this word is to “spread” or “stretch out” and to make “plain, or level, the earth”:

lane - madda, quran 13-3

As shown, the word can be used to mean “stretching” other things as well, such as “shade”.  Indeed, the word is also used in the Quran to refer to the “stretching” of a “shadow”, as in Surah Al-Furqaan, 25:45:

“Hast thou not turned thy vision to thy Lord?- How He doth prolong the shadow!”

Shamoun picked up on this additional meaning and made the rather comical remark that “would anyone argue that a shadow is actually spherical in shape?”  This just shows Shamoun’s woeful stupidity!  As the Islamic scholar Ibn Kathir explained, the verse is simply referring to:

“…the period from the beginning of the dawn until the sun rises.”[6]

So, the verse is referring to an easily observable phenomenon where a shadow of any physical object appears to “stretch” as the sun rises. 

            As for the meaning of “stretching” of the Earth, the word only refers to making the ground level.  According to Ibn Kathir, the meaning is that Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) has made the earth “…spacious in length and width.”[7]  So again, we see nothing here about the shape of the planet Earth.  It is simply a reminder of how God has made it “spacious” for people.      

            Finally, The Study Quran commentary on Surah 13:3 is quite interesting.  It states:

“[a]ccording to Ibn Juzayy, [the verse] may appear to suggest that the earth is flat and not, as was widely acknowledged in his time, round.  For him, however, the verse speaks of the earth as spread out because of the fact that every portion of land on earth, although flat from our perspective, comprises a greater whole, namely, the surface of the earth, which is round.”[8]

So we can see why Shamoun’s interpretation is so foolish.  Indeed, the same foolish interpretations can be applied to the Bible, as we will see.

  1. مِهَادًا

According to Lane’s Lexicon, this word means any place for sleeping (like a cradle) that is “made plain, even, or smooth”.  Similarly, when applied to the ground or “earth”, it means: 

“…a plain, an even, or a smooth expanse…”

Moreover, when used in Surah 78:6, it means that the earth was:

“…adapted to be travelled over.”

lane - mihad, quran 78-6

            A similar word is used in Surah Az-Zukhruf, 43:10 and means the same thing:

“(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);”

Alternate translations use the word “cradle” as well.[9]  According to The Study Quran, this verse was interpreted by scholars like Ibn Kathir and Al-Razi as meaning that the earth was made “easy to travel” (Ibn Kathir) or “tractable for agriculture” (Al-Razi) or “a home for human life”.[10]  So, would anyone argue that the earth has not been made as an “expanse” to be “travelled over” or to be used for agriculture?  Of course not!  Shamoun is once again misinterpreting the word as if it is somehow referring to the shape of the planet.  Rather, the Quran is referring to the ground and how it has been made “level” so that mankind can use it for resting and travelling.  It is simply reminding mankind of the blessings they enjoy, which they can easily witness themselves. 

  1. دَحَاهَا

According to Lane’s Lexicon, this word also means to:

“…spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended…”

When referring to “earth”, it means that God made it:

“…wide, or ample…”

lane - dahaha

 

Again, would anyone argue that the earth is not “wide” or “ample”?  There are currently almost 8 billion people on the entire planet, so clearly it is very “wide” and “ample”!

  1. سُطِحَتْ

According to Lane’s Lexicon, the root of this word again means to “spread” or “expand”.

lane - sutihat quran 88-29

So once again, the word is simply referring to the earth being expanded to provide ample space for mankind.  It is not referring to the shape of the entire planet.  As The Study Quran commentary states, “spread out” means:

“…in such a way that human beings derive many benefits from it.”[11]

  1. طَحَاهَا

Finally, this word, like the others, also means simply to “spread”, “expand” or “extend”. 

lane - tahaha, quran 91-6

So, based on what we have seen, the use of these words was not meant as a reference to the shape of the Earth.  Whenever these words are used in the Quran, the context is in the sense of something the reader can witness himself.  The Quran refers to how the earth has been “spread” and “expanded” so that mankind can use the ground to sit on, to sleep on and to travel on.  None of these verses can be used to pontificate on the shape of the entire planet.  But there are other verses that can.  Let us discuss these now.

The (Actual) Shape of the Earth in the Quran

            As discussed in a previous article,[12] there are some words used in the Quran that seem to suggest the shape of the planet Earth.  Surah Az-Zumar, 39:5, uses one such word:

“He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap [يُكَوِّرُ – yukawwiru] the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power – He Who forgives again and again?”

Let us see what this word means.  According to Lane’s Lexicon, the word means to “wound”, especially in a “round form”, like winding a turban around one’s head. 

lane - yukawwiru (1)

A similar word is used in Surah At-Takwir, 81:1, in reference to the sun (which any observer can see is round):

إِذَا الشَّمْسُ كُوِّرَتْ

The word of interest is كُوِّرَتْ “kuwwirat”, the meaning of which Lane’s Lexicon explains is:

“[w]hen the sun shall be wound round [with darkness] like a turban…”

lane - yukawwiru (2)

So we can see that this word conjures up the image of something being “wound” in a spherical or “round” form.  So when the word is used in Surah 39:5, it similarly conjures up the image of the “night” being “wound” around the day (and vice versa).  Thus, since it is used with regards to the sun, which is round, we can similarly conclude that when the “night” overlaps the “day”, the planet Earth (which both envelop) would have to be round as well.  In fact, this verse was used by classical scholars such as Ibn Hazm to conclude that the Earth was indeed round.[13]

The Bible’s Flat Earth

            As mentioned above, in contrast to the Quran, the Bible doe seem to allude to a flat earth cosmology.  Before we look at some verses as proof, let us first further refute Shamoun’s absurd argument about the Arabic words we discussed above.  The Quran describes how the Earth was “spread”, “stretched” or “expanded”, which Shamoun interpreted as meaning that the planet Earth had to be “flat”.  We have seen why this argument fails.  But let us the turn the tables on Shamoun and use his argument against his own Bible. 

            As stated above, the Hebrew word “raqa’” (pronounced raw-kah’) is used in three places to describe how God “spread” the earth (Psalm 136:6, Isaiah 42:5, 44:24).  But according to Strong’s Definitions and other lexicons,[14] the etymology of the word suggests a “spreading” that occurs as a result of “pounding” or “hammering” an object:

strong - raqa (ps 136-6, isaiah 42-5, 44-24)

This meaning is also confirmed by Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon:

gesenius lexicon - raqa isaiah 44-12 (spread out)

Notice how both sources describe the “hammering” or “beating” of the “earth” to “spread” it out.  If we use Shamoun’s logic, this would imply that the “Earth” must be flat![15]  But this would be a premature conclusion, since the Hebrew word for “earth” has multiple meanings, similar to the Arabic word.  The Hebrew word is אֶרֶץ (‘erets), which Gesenius’ Lexicon defines as either the planet Earth or “country” and “land” :

gesenius lexicon - erets (1)

gesenius lexicon - erets (2)

So the multiple definitions can range from the entire planet Earth or just a “piece of land” and also the “ground”, just like in Arabic.  With this context in mind, it would be premature to suggest on the basis of the three verses mentioned above that since the Earth is “spread”, then it must be “flat”.  Something tells me that Shamoun would not favor that interpretation![16]   

            But there are other Biblical passages that do seem to clearly suggest a flat Earth (and one particular verse leaves no doubt).  We will discuss two such passages, one from the Tanakh and one from the New Testament. 

Isaiah 11:12

“He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.”

The phrase of interest in this verse is “four quarters of the earth”.  The Hebrew word for “quarters” is   כָּנָף (kanaph), which is defined as an “edge” or “extremity”.[17] 

gesenius lexicon - kanaph

In other words, when referring to the “earth”, it means the farthest “extremities”.  However, according to Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, in this regard the earth is often compared to a “cloak” that is “spread out”.  A cloak, of course, could not be described in any form even remotely resembling a spherical object.  Hence, the suggestion is of a flat surface with four “corners” or “extremities”.  Nevertheless, if we keep in mind that the Hebrew word “erets” does not always mean the entire planet Earth, then it is possible that a flat-Earth cosmology is not necessarily implied.  But the next verse in our discussion, taken from the New Testament, can leave no such doubt.        

Matthew 4:8-9

“Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.””

This verse is the smoking gun for a flat Earth in the Bible.  As stated, the gospel claims that Satan took Jesus (peace be upon him) to a “very high mountain” and then showed him “all the kingdoms of the world”.  The fact that they had to go to a “very high mountain” to see these kingdoms refutes the idea of a spherical Earth, as it would be impossible to see the other “side”.[18] 

            One possible way to argue against the “flat Earth” argument could be appeal to the meaning of the word for “world”.  As we have seen, in the Hebrew language, the word “erets” can mean many things, such as a “piece of land” or the entire “Earth”.  Perhaps the same applies to the Greek word used in Matthew?  The word used in Matthew 4:8 is κόσμος “kosmos”,[19] from which we get the English word “cosmos”.  Can this word be ambiguous enough to simply mean “land”?  After all, many Christian commentaries have argued that Satan either:

  1. Showed Jesus a “vision” of all the kingdoms of the world (instead of a literal view),[20] or,
  2. Showed Jesus only the surrounding “kingdoms” of the holy land and other nearby lands.[21]

#1 clearly does not make sense since why would Satan bother to take Jesus to a “very high mountain” just to show him a “vision”.  He could have done that from the ground in the wilderness where they previously were. 

For #2 to be plausible, we would need to analyze the meaning of the Greek word “kosmos”.  And that is where we hit a brick wall.  According to Thayer’s Greek Lexicon, the word can mean an “ornament”, the “world” or “universe”, the “circle of the earth” or just the “earth”, or the “inhabitants of the world”.[22]  Here is a screenshot:

thayer lexicon - kosmos (1)

thayer lexicon - kosmos (2)

Similarly, the 19th-century scholar James Austin Bastow defined “kosmos” as “the world” or “universe”, and specifically with regard to Matthew 4:8 as “the earth, as the abode of man”.[23]  So it is clear that when Matthew used the word “kosmos”, he was referring to the entire world.  This designation is furthered strengthened by the fact that the devil offered the “kingdoms” as if they were his to give.  It would be far more impressive if he was referring to the entire world rather than to just a small region in the Middle East.  As Jeannine K. Brown states in her commentary on the gospel of Matthew:

“[t]he final temptation consists of an implicit claim by the devil that all the kingdoms of the world belong to him and that he will give them to Jesus if Jesus will worship him…”[24]

            Furthermore, if Matthew did not intend to refer to the whole world, he could have easily used a more ambiguous Greek word, similar to the Hebrew word “erets”.  This is the Greek word  γῆ (gē).[25]  Matthew even used this word several times in his gospel, including later in chapter 4, when he was quoting Isaiah: 

“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles…”[26]

According to Thayer’s Lexicon, the Greek word can mean “arable land”, the “ground”, the “earth as a whole” or “a country”:

thayer lexicon - ge (2)

thayer lexicon - ge

In contrast, “kosmos” always meant the entire world or even the “universe” as well, so why didn’t Matthew use the more ambiguous word when referring to the “kingdoms of the world”, as some commentators allege was his original intention?  Clearly, this argument does not have any merit.  Matthew meant the kingdoms of the entire world, and he thought that it would be possible to see them all from a “very high mountain”.  Of course, we have to remember that his knowledge of the world would have been limited.  There is no reason to expect him to know about far-off lands like North America, South America or Australia.  To Matthew, the whole “world” could have been limited to the lands of the Roman Empire and some other lands outside its realm, like Parthia.  But there is no doubt that Matthew believed that it was possible to see all the kingdoms of the known world from a tall mountain.  This suggests a flat-Earth cosmology.       

Conclusion

            As we have seen, Shamoun is high on bluster but short on substance.  The Arabic words he claimed refer to a “flat” Earth imply no such thing and can easily be interpreted as describing the Earth from mankind’s perspective so as to remind them of God’s blessings.  Furthermore, it was shown how this argument backfired on Shamoun when it was applied to the Bible.  However, we saw that premature and unscholarly hijinks, such as those that Shamoun showcases, do not tell the whole story.  Thus, the meaning of the Arabic and Hebrew words commonly translated as “earth” can mean much more.  They can mean simply the “land” or “ground”, in which case both the Quran and the Bible’s description of the “earth” as “spread out” mean that it has been made spacious for people.  Nevertheless, we did see one clear-cut example of the Bible’s flat-Earth cosmology: Matthew 4:8.  This verse leaves no doubt that the author envisioned a flat Earth (albeit a very small one), whose kingdoms could be seen from a “very high mountain”.  There can be no doubt, then, that the Bible (or at least the New Testament) alludes to a flat Earth, which proves that it cannot be from God.  And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best!  



[1] https://bloggingtheology2.com/2019/01/05/ibn-hazm-10th-century-shuts-down-flat-earthers-the-earth-is-spherical-despite-what-is-popularly-believed/comment-page-1/#comment-1270

[2] http://www.tyndalearchive.com/TABS/Lane//

[3] Psalm 136:5-7.

[4] Isaiah 42:5.

[5] Isaiah 44:24.

[6] http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2391&Itemid=80

[7] http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2318&Itemid=68

[8] The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary, ed. Seyyed Hossein Nasr (New York: HarperOne, 2015), p. 616.

[9] See The Study Quran, op. cit., p. 1191.

[10] Ibid.

[11] Ibid., p. 1508.

[12] https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/science-in-the-bible-and-the-quran/

[13] https://islamqa.info/en/answers/118698/consensus-that-the-earth-is-round

[14] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7554&t=KJV

[15] Recall that the Arabic word “madda” describes a “plain”.  Interestingly, so does the Hebrew word “raqa’”!  According to Barnes’ Notes on the Bible, in the commentary on Isaiah 42:5:

“He that spread forth the earth – He stretched it out as a plain – retaining the idea which was so common among the ancients that the earth was a vast plain, reaching from one end of the heavens to the other” (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/isaiah/42.htm).

[16] Nevertheless, some scholars have argued that the use of “raqa’” in Psalm 136:6 suggests a flattened “earth” floating on the sea.  As Paul H. Seely explained in a 1997 publication in the Westminster Theological Journal:

“…the synonymous phraseology in Ps 136:6 (especially in the light of Isa 40:19  which uses raqa’ in the sense of “overlay”) means that the earth is spread  out over or upon the sea. As gold overlays the cherubim in I Kgs 6:32 so the earth overlays the sea in Ps 136:6” (Paul H. Seely, “The Geographical Meaning of “Earth” and “Seas” in Genesis 1:10,” Westminster Theological Journal 59 (1997): 251, https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/OTeSources/01-Genesis/Text/Articles-Books/Seely_EarthSeas_WTJ.pdf).

[17] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3671&t=KJV

[18] Of course, it could be that Matthew’s knowledge of the world was much more limited than our own.  To Matthew, the entire “world” could have been limited to just the Middle East, Europe and some parts of Asia.  Either way, such limited knowledge would not be expected from an allegedly “inspired” source.

[19] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2889&t=KJV

[20] See for example Elicott’s Commentary for English Readers:

“[h]ere, if proof were wanted, we have evidence that all that passed in the Temptation was in the region of which the spirit, and not the senses, takes cognisance. No “specular mount” (I use Milton’s phrase) in the whole earth commands a survey of “all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them”” (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/matthew/4.htm).

[21] See for example Barnes’ Notes on the Bible:

“[i]t is not probable that anything more is intended here than the kingdoms of Palestine, or of the land of Canaan, and those in the immediate vicinity. Judea was divided into three parts, and those parts were called kingdoms; and the sons of Herod, who presided over them, were called kings. The term “world” is often used in this limited sense to denote a part or a large part of the world, particularly the land of Canaan.  See Romans 4:13, where it means the land of Judah; also Luke 2:1, and the note on the place.” (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/matthew/4.htm).

Of course, Barnes’ claim that the word for “world” was “often used in this limited sense” is clearly false, as we will see.  He appealed to Romans 4:13 as proof of his claim, but Paul was appealing to the promise that Abraham’s offspring would inherit the world, and not just the land of Judea.

As for Luke 2:1, it doesn’t even use the same word.  Rather, when referring to the census of the Roman Empire, Luke used the word οἰκουμένη “oikoumenē

[22] Ibid.

The phrase “circle of the earth” is found in Isaiah 40:22, but it does not mean the Earth is round, as some apologists claim.  Rather, many ancient cosmologies regarded the Earth as a flat land with the heavens serving as a canopy in the form of a dome (hence the phrase “circle of the earth”). 

[23] James Austin Bastow, A Biblical Dictionary, 4th ed. (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1876), p. 783. 

[24] Jeannine K. Brown, “Matthew,” in The Baker Illustrated Bible Commentary, ed. Gary M. Burge and Andrew E. Hill (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2012), p. 963.

[25] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1093&t=KJV

[26] Matthew 4:15.

 

 



Categories: Bible, Biblical Hebrew, Christianity, God, Gospels, Islam, Jesus, Judaism, Muhammad, Qur'an, Sam Shamoun, Science, Tanakh

Tags: , , , , , , , ,

144 replies

  1. Man, I have met some wicked dishonest inept Muhammadans in my day, but you are on a whole higher level. This is why you will never debate your claims in a moderated forum since you know you will be buried deep within Allah’s flat earth.

    Thank you for citing and misappropriating the lexicons, since I am simply going to repeat what I myself quoted from these same lexical sources so everyone can actually read them IN CONTEXT. Enjoy!

    MADD

    [It is] he who hath stretched forth (madda) the earth, and placed therein stedfast [mountains], and rivers; and hath ordained therein of every fruit two [different] kinds. He causeth the night to cover the day. Herein are certain signs unto people who consider. S. 13:3 Sale

    And We have spread out the earth (flat) (madadnaha); Placed mountains (on it) firm and immovable; And in it made all kinds of things in proper balance. S. 15:19 Syed Vickar Ahamad

    And the earth, we have stretched it out (madadnaha) and thrown thereon firm mountains, and caused to grow thereon every beautiful kind. S. 50:7 Palmer

    Here are a couple more places in the Quran where this particular Arabic word appears:

    Hast thou not regarded thy Lord, how He has stretched out (madda) the shadow? Had He willed, He would have made it still. Then We appointed the sun, to be a guide to it; S. 25:45 Arberry

    Would anyone argue that a shadow is actually spherical in shape?

    “And when the earth is flattened out (muddat), And casts forth what is within it and becomes (clean) empty,” S. 84:3-4 Y. Ali

    What makes this last example rather interesting is that it clearly contradicts all of the other texts, which speak of the earth already being flattened out. In light of this, how much more flatter can the earth get?

    Even more interesting is the following Muslim exposition of Q. 84:3:

    The present Surah depicts the conditions that will prevail on the Day of Judgement, such as reckoning and accountability, reward of good and torment of evil. The heedless man is asked to look into himself and his environs, which will lead him to believe in Allah and the Qur’an. [The powerful opening of the Surah sketches some of the scenes of universal upheaval]. First, it speaks about the sky that will split apart. Then it goes on to speak about the earth that will be stretched and will throw up whatever it contains – whether natural treasures, or buried treasures, or dead human bodies, and then it will become empty. A new earth will be prepared for Hashr (Gathering of the Day of Requital). It will have neither caves nor mountains, neither buildings nor trees. IT WILL BE FLAT and smooth. It will be stretched so that there is ample room for the former as well as the latter generations to gather on the plain…” (Maariful-Qur’an, by Maulana Mufti Muhammad Shafi’, translated by Prof. Muhammad Hasan Askari & Prof. Muhammad Shamim, revised by Justice Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani, Volume 8, p. 739; capital emphasis ours)

    Here the Maulana candidly acknowledges that the Arabic verb means that Allah will literally flatten out the earth on the Day of Judgment. And yet when this same verb is used in Q. 13:3, a text which says that Allah has already made the earth a flat surface, this same scholar ends up singing a different tune in order to avoid having to admit that the Quran is a flat earth book:

    “The expression: ‘spread out the earth’ is not contradictory of its being round – because each part of something very big and round appears to be, when looked at separately, nothing but a surface spread out – and the Quran addresses common people in terms of their view of things. Since a common onlooker sees it as a spread-out surface, therefore, it was identified as such…” (Ibid., Volume 5, p. 187; bold emphasis ours)

    Talk about someone being so grossly inconsistent and desperate!

    LEXICAL DEFINITION

    Here is how the Arabic lexicons define this word:

    Miim-Dal-Dal = to draw a thing (namely a rope), pull a thing, stretch a thing, strain a thing, extend by drawing or pulling, stretch forth, to prolong, expand/elongate/lengthen a thing, spread or spread out, delay or defer a thing, continue a thing, to help or aid someone, to advance, to increase, to supply ink (put ink into a thing), apply ink to a thing, manure land (with dung). (Project Root List)

    These next references can all be found here.

    madd pl… mudud extension; distension, dilation, expansion; stretching; spreading; lengthening, elongation, prolongation, protraction… (Hans Wehr, 4th ed., pp. 1052-1053)

    … madd, U, INF. madd, stretch, extend… spread out… II. INF. tamdid, stretch or extend greatly;–III. INF. midad, mumidda-t, stretch, lengthen… V. INF. tamaddud, stretch, extend, lengthen (n.)… VIII. INF. imtidad, be stretched, extended; stretch, extend, lengthen (n.), be long… madd, pl. mudud… stretch, extent… madda-t, stretching, extending (s.)… (Francis Joseph Steingass, Arabic-English Dictionary, p. 974)

    … m-d-d to pull, to stretch, elongation, to be tall… madda u (v. trans.) 1 to spread out (13:3)… (15:88)… 3 to extend, to elongate (25:45)… mudda (pass. v.) to be spread out, to be stretched out (84:3)… (Brill, pp. 871-872)

    … To stretch forth, extend, stretch, draw out… The act of extending etc.… Extended, extensive… Widely extended… (John Penrice, Dictionary and Glossary of Quran, p. 138)

    … (1) Stretch; (2) spread; (3) extend… (M. G. Farid, Dictionary of Quran, p. 749)

    Like

    • MIHAD

      Have We not made the earth as a bed (mihadan), S. 78:6 Hilali-Khan

      “Have We not made the earth a flat carpet” Aisha Bewley

      LEXICAL DEFINITION

      Miim-ha-Dal = To make a place or thing plain or even or smooth, to prepare or establish, to gain or earn, seek to gain, to work for oneself, to spread or be spread (namely a bed). (Project Root List)

      Here is the link for all of the following references.

      … II to spread out evenly… to smooth, smoothen… to pave (a road); to flatten, plane, make even or level… to arrange, settle, straighten… make (a bed, etc.)… to get straightened out… mahd pl.… muhud bed; cradle… (lahd) from cradle to grave… (Hans Wehr, p. 1089)

      … It (a bed) became spread, and made plain, even, or smooth. (A.)… [He spread for himself a bed, and made it plain, even, or smooth]… (LL, p. 2797)

      … mahad, INF. mahd, spread out; attend to a business and draw profit from it;–II. INF. tamhid, spread; level, plane; carry out, despatch… V. INF. tamahhud, be spread, leveled… VIII. INF. imtihad, spread out… mahd, bed; cradle; plain; level piece of land;–muhd, & muhda-t, pl. amhad, mihada-t, id.; uneven ground, which is to be levelled … (Steingass, p. 1075)

      To spread out (a carpet). To smooth… (Hava, p. 729)

      … m-h-d sleeping place, resting place, cradle, to prepare, to pave, to straighten things up, to make level or even… Of this root, six forms occur 12 times in the Qur’an… mahada once… mahhada once… mahidun once… tamhid once… mahd five times and… mihad seven times… mahidun [pl. of act. part.… mahid] ones who pave the way, spread out, remove difficulties, smooth things out… mahd 1 [n] cradle (19:29)… 2 [v. n./quasi-pass, part.] plain, spread out, habitable, well prepared… mihad [v. n./n.] 1 widely spreading out, widely outstretched; an expanse (78:6)… (Brill, p. 902)

      … aor. a. To spread open a bed… n.a. A bed, cradle… One who spreads a couch. A couch, a place of wde extent… II. To make (things) smooth and agreeable… n.a. The act og making smooth. (Penrice, p. 141)

      … He spread a bed and made it even and smooth… A child’s bed; a bed; a thing spread to lie, recline or sit upon… and it is applied to earth meaning an even or smooth expanse… He Who has made the earth for you a cradle (43:11)… Have We not made the earth a bed (78:7)?… He shall speak to the people in the cradle (3:47)… And how excellent do We prepare things; how excellently We have spread it (51:49). (Farid, p. 761)

      to extend, unfold, stretch out, make level, plain, prepare… spreaders… I made smooth… preparation, making smooth

      cradle (1)…

      And he will speak unto mankind in his cradle…

      bed (2)…

      Who hath appointed the earth as a bed… expanse, resting place, that which lies spread out (Nadwi, p. 619)

      … mahd /n pl muhuud/ cradle. (Hind/Badawi, p. 837)

      Mahada…

      To prepare, extend, unfold, stretch out, make level, make provision.

      Yamhaduna… (imp. 3rd, p. m. plu.): They prepare, make provision. Mahiduna… (act. pic. m. plu.): Those who spread couch; Spreaders. Mahhadtu… (imp. 1st p. sing. II.): I made smooth etc. Tamhidan… (v. n. II. acc.): Making smooth. Mahd… (n.): Cradle; Bed. Mihad… (n. acc.): Resting place; That which lies spread out. (L; T; R; LL)

      The root with its above six forms has been used to the Holly [sic] Qur’an as many as 16 times. (Dictionary of the Holy Quran, p. 544)

      TAHAHA

      and by the earth and That which extended it (tahaha)! S. 91:6 Arberry

      And/by the earth/Planet Earth and who spread and extended it. Muhammad Ahmed – Samira

      LEXICAL DEFINITION

      Tay-ha-Alif/Ya = to spread out, extend, scatter/disperse, to execute/perform a matter firmly/soundly/thoroughly. (Project Root List)

      Like

      • DAHAHA

        And the earth, after that He flattened it (dahaha) (for life). S. 79:30 Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali

        Certain Muslim apologists claim that the verb dahaha means that the earth has been shaped like an ostrich egg since it is claimed that the root, from which this Arabic word is derived, refers to the egg of an ostrich. However, this is simply a gross misrepresentation of the root meaning of this verb, just as the following lexical sources will demonstrate.

        LEXICAL DEFINITION

        Dal-Ha-Waw (Dal-Ha-Alif) = To hurl, spread forth, expand, stretch out, cast away, extend, drive along. (Project Root List)

        1… He spread; spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended; … or He (God) made the earth wide, or ample… also, said of an ostrich, (S, TA,) he expanded, and made wide, (TA,) with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs: (S, TA:) and, said of a man, he spread, &c., and made plain, even, or smooth. (TA in art…)… 5… He spread out, or extended, himself; … Such a one slept, and [extended himself so that he] lay upon a wide space of ground. (TA in that art.)… The camels made hollows in the ground where they lay down, it being soft; leaving therein cavities like those of bellies: they do only when they are fat. (El-‘Itreefee, TA in art…)… 9… It (a thing, TA) was, or became, spread, spread out or forth, expanded, or extended (K.)… in a prayer of ‘Alee, means O God, the Spreader and Expander of the [seven] earths: (TA:)… [properly] signifies the things that are spread, &c… The rain that removes [or drives] the pebbles from the surface of the earth. (TA.)… The place of the laying of egg, (S, K) and of the hatching thereof, (S,), of the ostrich, (S,) in the sand; (K;) because that bird expands it, and makes it wide, with its foot, or leg; for the ostrich has no [nest such as is termed]… [likewise] signifies the place of the eggs of the ostrich. (.) [Hence,]… A female ostrich. (TA.)__[Hence also,]… A certain Mansion of the Moon, (K, TA,) [namely, the Twenty-first Mansion,]…(LL, p. 108)

        These next references can all be found here.

        … daha u (dahw) to spread out, flatten, level, unroll… udhiya ostrich nest in the ground. (Hans Wehr, 4th ed., p. 315)

        … daha, U, A, INF. dahw, extend, spread (a.); push; throw down; lie with; be big and flabby;-V. INF. taddahhi, be spread… (Steingass, p. 356)

        … daha u [v. trans.] to roll out, to spread out, to expand, to widen up (79:30)… (Brill, p. 300)

        … aor. a. and o. To spread out, expand, transitive. (Penrice, p. 47)

        … God has spread, spread out, expanded or extended the earth; made wide or ample… (79:31)… (Farid, p. 264)

        stretched out… [79:30] (Nadwi, p. 162)

        Daha…

        To hurl, spread forth, expand, stretch out, cast away, extend, drive along.

        Daha… (prf. 3rd. p.m. sing.) stretched out; Hurled away; Cast (79:30). (L; T; R; LL) (Omar, p. 174)

        The foregoing lexicons refute the assertion that daha refers to an ostrich egg. As the above data indicates, the term actually refers to the flat surface or ground, which an ostrich buries its eggs in. More specifically, the word is used to describe the action of the female ostrich that digs into the sand as a place to hide her egg, and then proceeds to flatten (tadhoo) the sand or earth over it.

        Moreover, the egg of an ostrich is more ovoid in shape whereas the earth is a geoid. This means that even if we assume that ostrich egg is one of the meanings derived from daha the Quran would still be wrong!

        SUTIHAT

        Nor even how the earth has been flattened out (sutihat)? S. 88:20 T. B. Irving

        Here is how the two Jalals interpreted this passage:

        And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT, WHICH IS THE OPINION OF MOST OF THE SCHOLARS of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law. (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; bold, capital and underline emphasis ours)

        LEXICAL DEFINITION

        Siin-Tay-Ha = to spread out, level, expand, stretch. (Project Root List)

        These next references can all be found here.

        sataha a (sath) to spread out, spread, unfold, unroll… to level, even, plane, flatten, make smooth… to throw to the ground, fell… II to spread out, spread, unfold, unroll… to level, even, plane, flatten, make smooth… V to be spread out be unfolded; to be leveled, be evened; to lie down on one’s back VII to spread out, be unfolded; to lie flat on one’s back, be supine… sath pl… sutuh surface (also geom.); plane (geom.); (pl. also… astiha… astuh) (flat) roof, terrace; deck (of a ship)… sutuh (eg., syr.) roof terrace… s. al-buhr sea level… inclined plane… sathi external, outer, outward, outside, exterior; flat; superficial; pl… sathiyat externals, superficialities… surface mail (in contrast with air mail)… sathiya flatness; superficiality… satih flat, spread out, stretched out, spine (Hans Wehr, 4th ed., p. 477)

        … satah, INF. sath, spread; roll thin and flat; level, flatten, give a flat roof to a house; throw one on his back, lay him on his side;– -II. INF. tastih, spread, make, smooth and level;–VII. INF. insitah, pass. of II.; lie extended on the back. (Steingass, p. 492)

        … satih, flat, spread out; lying on the back; fallen so as not to be able to rise again; killed;–also satiha-t, large water-bag made of three skins;–satiha’t, plane surface. (Ibid., p. 493)

        … s-t-h to be flat, flattened, to spread out, upper side. Of this root only… sutihat occurs once in the Qur’an… sutiha [pass. v.] to be made flat, to be flattened, to be spread out (88:20)… (Brill, p. 435)

        … He spread it out or expanded it… God spread or expanded the earth… How it is spread (88:21)… He threw him down so that he lay on his back; he threw him on his side… The flat top or roof of a house; the surface of a place; a plane. (Farid, p. 394)

        … satah (a)/vt/ to flatten, spread out flat. darab-u w-satah-u he knocked him flat… (Hind/Badawi, p. 411)

        Sataha…

        To spread out, level, expand, stretch.

        Sutihat… (pip. 3rd. p. f. sing.): It is spread out (88:20). (L; T; R; LL) (Omar, p. 258)

        In light of the foregoing, could the Muslim scripture be any clearer that the earth is not a sphere but a flat object, seeing that every word that it employs to describe the shape of the earth always refers to something that is flat or straight?

        This should finally put to rest the oft-repeated Muslim assertion that the Quran describes the earth as being spherical in shape.

        Like

    • HAHAHAHA, so how does Fatty Shammy respond? By repeating his original arguments, which were already dealt with. Shamu, these Arabic words need to be understood in context. They are simply referring to God’s favor upon mankind by making the Earth spacious and level so that humans can sit and sleep and travel. The Bible suggest the same thing with the word “raqa”. Did you even read the article, silly billy?

      Like

    • سطح، طحا ، مهد ، دحى
      All these terms have nothing to do with whether the body of the earth is spherical or not.

      All hadiths you quoted have have nothing to do with whether the body of the earth is spherical or not.

      So get back to your pigsty.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. And now let’s obliterate your shameless butchering of Q. 39:5:

    Before concluding, we would like to address the following claim made by Muslims. We are told in the Quran:

    He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power – He Who forgives again and again? S. 39:5

    According to some Muslims, the word “Overlap” (yukawir) can also mean “coil” or “rotate”. This word was used to refer to the coiling of a turban around one’s head. Muslims therefore see in this verse the modern scientific realization that the earth is round and rotates on an axis. Muslims assert that this is what the Quran is implying when stating that the day coils into the night and vice-versa. This is then taken as scientific proof that the Quran is revelation from God.

    There are two problems with this claim. First, much like a person’s head remains stationary while the turban coils around it, this demonstrates that the author of the Quran assumed that the earth is a stationary object which the sun and the moon are orbiting! Second, you can have the day and the night coil into each other without this implying a round earth. For instance, we often find people coiling wires around a flat surface such as a board.

    Like

    • “There are two problems with this claim. First, much like a person’s head remains stationary while the turban coils around it, this demonstrates that the author of the Quran assumed that the earth is a stationary object which the sun and the moon are orbiting! Second, you can have the day and the night coil into each other without this implying a round earth. For instance, we often find people coiling wires around a flat surface such as a board.”

      LOL!! So Shammy now moves the goalpost! Notice that he didn’t even refute argument! He just appealed to a new idiotic interpretation!

      The verse says nothing about the earth being stationary. It is talking about the cycles of night and day, and how they alternate. As I showed in the article, the same word is used with regard to the sun. On the Day of Judgement, the sun will be darkened (like the night enveloping the earth). It is described as the darkness “winding” around the sun to completely envelop it. It has nothing to do with the sun’s movement!

      How desperate are you Shammy?

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Enoy as i bury deeper into Allah’s flat earth:

    Sahih Al-Bukhari

    Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    The Prophet asked me at sunset, “Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said, “It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’” (36.38)
    The translator has an interesting footnote here:

    The procedure of the sun mentioned in this Hadith and similar other things mentioned in the Qur’an like the prostration of the trees, herbs and stars (V. 55:6) are beyond our limited knowledge of this universe. It is interpreted that these are mentioned so because of the limited understanding of the people at that time about matters of the universe.

    Not only do the Quran and Hadith reflect the limited understanding of the people, but also Muhammad himself shared the people’s ignorance regarding the orbit of the constellations. Muhammad then tried to pass this erroneous understanding off as revelation from God.

    Volume 6, Book 60, Number 327:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    I asked the Prophet about the Statement of Allah:–
    ‘And the sun runs on fixed course for a term (decreed),’ (36.38) He said, “Its course is underneath Allah’s Throne.”

    Volume 9, Book 93, Number 520:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    I entered the mosque while Allah’s Apostle was sitting there. When the sun had set, the Prophet said, “O Abu Dharr! Do you know where this (sun) goes?” I said, “Allah and His Apostle know best.” He said, “It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west.” Then the Prophet recited, “That: ‘And the sun runs on its fixed course (for a term decreed),” (36.38) as it is recited by ‘Abdullah.

    Volume 9, Book 93, Number 528:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    I asked the Prophet regarding the Verse:–‘And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term decreed for it.’ (36.28) He said, “Its fixed course is underneath Allah’s Throne.”

    Sahih Muslim

    Book 001, Number 0297:
    It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything (unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.

    COMMENTS
    It is clear from these hadiths that Muhammad literally believed that the sun is traveling on a fixed course. This course begins from the moment the sun rises till it prostrates itself before God’s throne, from which it returns back on its course. This further implies that Allah actually lives somewhere in space, otherwise we are forced to assume that the sun travels outside the physical universe and actually enters into the spiritual realm.

    Yet, this would affirm that heaven is a location where Allah’s throne occupies a certain section, further implying that Allah is not an omnipresent entity. Rather, this implies that Allah is an entity that has an actual body, albeit a spiritual one, much like angels have spiritual bodies that occupy spatial dimensions.

    This conclusion is supported by Ibn Kathir’s commentary on S. 36:38:

    There are two views over the meaning of the phrase …

    (The first view) is that it refers to its fixed course of location, which is beneath the Throne, BEYOND the earth in that direction. Wherever it goes, it is beneath the Throne, it and all of creation, because the Throne is the ROOF of creation and it is not a sphere as many astronomers claim. Rather it is A DOME SUPPORTED BY LEGS OR PILLARS, CARRIED BY THE ANGELS, and it is ABOVE the universe, ABOVE the heads of people. When the sun is at its zenith at noon, it is in its closest position to the Throne, and when it runs in its fourth orbit at the opposite point to its zenith, at midnight, it is in its furthest position from the Throne. At that point it prostrates and asks permission to rise, as mentioned in the Hadiths.

    Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Dharr, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “I was with the Prophet in the Masjid at sunset, and he said: …

    ((O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?)) I said, ‘Allah and His Messenger know best.’ He said: …

    ((It goes and prostrates itself beneath the Throne, and that is what Allah says: ))

    It was also reported that Abu Dharr, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “I asked the Messenger of Allah about the Ayah: …

    He said: …

    ((Its fixed course is beneath the Throne.))”

    (The second view) is that this refers to when the sun’s appointed time comes to an end, which will be on the Day of Resurrection, when its fixed course will be abolished, it will come to a halt an it will be rolled up. This world will come to an end, and that will be the end of its appointed time. This is the fixed course of its time … (Tafsir Ibn Kathir Abridged, Volume 8 Surat Al-Ahzab, Verse 51 to the end of Surat Ad-Dukhan, abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, London, Lahore; September 2000, first edition], pp. 196-197; capital emphasis ours)

    Third, since Muhammad has actually given his interpretation of S. 36:38, and since Muslims believe that everything Muhammad said was inspired, this means that any appeal to scientists for the exegesis of this passage is entirely unfounded and misplaced. Yet Muhammad’s interpretation leaves irreconcilable contradictions with well-established scientific facts.

    This essentially means that Muslims are forced to either reject Muhammad’s statements in the Hadith and commentaries, or reject the findings of scientists by assuming that they are all in error.

    Yet to adopt the former is to reject one of the essential pillars of Islam, namely the Sunnah of Muhammad which is to be found in these hadiths, as well as other Muslim sources. This would also mean that Muslims must adopt science as a criterion to judge the Quran for truth and error. This approach makes science higher and greater in authority than the alleged revelation of Allah. Yet to reject the findings of scientists as false is to lose any credibility and respect among the scientific and intellectual community.

    Finally, Muhammad’s claim that the sun travels in a fixed course presumes that the earth is stationary, a fact supported by the following hadiths:

    Sahih Al-Bukhari

    Volume 8, Book 76, Number 513:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established till the sun rises from the west, and when it rises (from the west) and the people see it, then all of them will believe (in Allah). But that will be the time when ‘No good it will do to a soul to believe then. If it believed not before …’” (6.158)
    The Hour will be established (so suddenly) that two persons spreading a garment between them will not be able to finish their bargain, nor will they be able to fold it up. The Hour will be established while a man is carrying the milk of his she-camel, but cannot drink it; and the Hour will be established when someone is not able to prepare the tank to water his livestock from it; and the Hour will be established when some of you has raised his food to his mouth but cannot eat it.”
    Sahih Muslim

    Book 041, Number 7025:

    Abdullah b. ‘Amr reported: I committed to memory a hadith from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and I did not forget it after I had heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The first sign would be the appearance of the sun from the west, the appearance of the beast before the people in the forenoon and which of the two happens first, the second one would follow immediately after that.

    COMMENTS
    That the sun will rise from the west affirms that the sun is traversing a stationary earth. Either that or we must presume that Allah will actually reverse the earth’s rotation. In light of the previous hadiths which indicate that the sun travels to God’s throne, it is clear that the latter interpretation cannot be accepted.

    Continuing further with the Ahadith, we are also told the following:

    Sahih Muslim

    Book 004, Number 1812:

    … He said: Observe the dawn prayer, then stop praying when the sun is rising till it is fully up, for when it rises it comes up between the horns of Satan, and the unbelievers prostrate themselves to it at that time. Then pray, for the prayer is witnessed and attended (by angels) till the shadow becomes about the length of a lance; then cease prayer, for at that time Hell is heated up. Then when the shadow moves forward, pray, for the prayer is witnessed and attended by angels, till you pray the afternoon prayer, then cease prayer till the sun sets, for it sets between the horns of devil, and at that time the unbelievers prostrate themselves before it …

    Book 040, Number 6852:

    Miqdad b. Aswad reported: I heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace he upon him) as saying: On the Day of Resurrection, the sun would draw so close to the people that there would be left only a distance of one mile. Sulaim b. Amir said: By Allah, I do not know whether he meant by “mile” the mile of the (material) earth or an instrument used for applying collyrium to the eye. (The Holy Prophet is, however, reported to have said): The people would be submerged in perspiration according to their deeds, some up to their knees, Some up to the waist and some would have the bridle of perspiration and, while saying this, Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) pointed his hand towards his mouth.

    Malik’s Muwatta

    Book 15, Number 15.10.44:
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from Ata ibn Yasar from Abdullah as-Sunabihi that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “The sun rises and with it is a horn of Shaytan and when the sun gets higher the horn leaves it. Then when the sun reaches the meridian the horn joins it and when the sun declines the horn leaves it, and when the sun has nearly set it joins it again.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade prayer at these times.

    COMMENTS
    The claim that the sun rises and sets on Satan’s horns and that the sun will be drawn close to the people on the Day of Judgment only serves to prove that Muhammad held to an erroneous view of cosmology. The statements from the Quran, the hadiths, and the tafsirs clearly teach that the sun is actually traveling around the earth till it reaches Allah’s throne. From there, it returns back on its course until Allah will cause it to rise from the west.

    The next tradition taken from the Mishkat poses additional problems for those who seek to use science as a means of authenticating Muhammad’s prophethood:

    Al-‘Abbas b. ‘Abd al-Muttalib asserted that he was sitting in al-Batha’ with a company among whom God’s messenger was sitting when a cloud passed. They looked at it and God’s messenger asked, “What do you call this?” and they received the reply “Clouds (sahab).” He said, “And rain-clouds (muzn),” to which they agreed. He asked, “Do you know the distance between heaven and earth?” and when they replied that they did not, he said, “The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years, the heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are EIGHT MOUNTAIN-GOATS the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like that between one heaven and the next. On their backs is the Throne the extent of which from top to bottom is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then God is above that.” Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud transmitted it. (Mishkat Al-Masabih, English Translation With Explanatory Notes by Dr. James Robson, Volume II [Sh. Muhammad Ahsraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters, Lahore-Pakistan, Reprint 1994], p. 1226; capital emphasis ours)

    What scientist would say that Muhammad’s claim here regarding the distance between one heaven and the next, or that there is a sea above the seventh heaven above which there are eight mountain goats is remotely scientific? This sounds like something from a fairytale.

    Like

  4. Now since your so confident of the trash you produced let’s set up a debate on whether the Quran or the Bible teaches a flat earth. Can you manage to produce a bite to go along with your barking and agree to debate me since we can have David Wood set it up for his livestream within the next two weeks.

    Like

  5. More goodies for you. All the commentaries will be from Ibn Kathir, unless stated otherwise:

    Q. 2:22

    WHO made the earth a bed for you, and the heaven a roof, and caused water to come down from the clouds and therewith brought forth fruits for your sustenance; so do not set up equals to ALLAH, while you know. Sher Ali

    Commentary:

    … who has made the earth AS FLAT and comfortable as a bed and placed upon it mountains standing firm… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1), Surah Al-Fatihah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa’i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1998 second edition], pp. 79-80)

    The online version reads:

    … He made the earth a resting place for them, just like the bed, STABLE with the firm mountains …

    meaning, ‘a ceiling’ …

    Q. 13:3

    And He it is who hath outstretched the earth, and placed on it the firm mountains, and rivers: and of every fruit He hath placed on it two kinds: He causeth the night to enshroud the day. Verily in this are signs for those who reflect. Rodwell

    Commentary:

    Allah mentions His perfect ability and infinite authority, since it is He Who has raised the heavens without pillars by His permission and order. He, by His leave, order and power, has elevated the heavens high above the earth, distant and far away from reach. The heaven nearest to the present world encompasses the earth from all directions, and is also high above it from every direction. The distance between the first heaven and the earth is five hundred years from every direction, and its thickness is also five hundred years. The second heaven surrounds the first heaven from every direction, encompassing everything that the latter carries, with a thickness also of five hundred years and a distance between them of five hundred years. The same is also true about the third, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth and the seventh heavens…

    meaning, ‘there are pillars, but you cannot see them,’ according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, and several other scholars. Iyas bin Mu`awiyah said, “The heaven is like a dome over the earth,” meaning, without pillars… (Source)

    Q. 15:19

    And the earth have WE spread out, and set therein firm mountains and cause every thing to grow therein in proper proportion. Sher Ali

    We are told in the Tafsir al-Jalalayn that:

    And the earth We have stretched it out, SPREAD IT FLAT, and cast therein firm mountains, lest it should sway beneath its inhabitants, and caused to grow therein every kind of balanced thing, [every kind of thing] known and determined. (Source; capital and underline emphasis ours)

    Q. 16:15

    And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest IT [the earth] should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves; Y. Ali

    Commentary:

    … Then Allah mentions the earth and how He placed in it mountains standing firm, which make it stable and keep it from shaking in such a manner that the creatures dwelling on it would not be able to live. Hence Allah says …

    (79: 32). (Source)

    Q. 20:53

    [since he is the One] Who has laid out the earth as a carpet for you and has traced highways on it for you, and sent down water from the sky, We have brought forth every sort of plant with it, of various types. T.B. Irving

    Q. 22:65

    Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven FROM FALLING ON THE EARTH except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men. Shakir

    Commentary:

    If He willed, He could give the sky permission to fall on the earth, and whoever is in it would be killed, but by His kindness, mercy and power, He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth, except by His leave … (Source)

    Note: Certainly it is God, the Creator who put everything in place to function well. And He is also the sustainer who upholds the continuing existence of the world. However, the above formulation presupposes that the sky above us is something heavy and hard which could cause serious damage, even kill people, if it were to fall down. That certainly is scientific nonsense!

    Q. 27:61

    Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as A FIXED ABODE, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not. Hilali-Khan

    Note here these two other translations:

    Is not He (best) Who made the earth A FIXED ABODE … Pickthall

    He who made the earth A FIXED PLACE… A.J. Arberry

    Commentary:

    meaning, STABLE AND STATIONARY, SO THAT IT DOES NOT MOVE OR CONVULSE, because if it were to do so, it would not be a good place for people to live on. But by His grace and mercy, He has made it smooth and calm, and it is not shaken or moved … (Source)

    Q. 30:25

    Among His signs are [the fact] that the sky and earth HOLD FIRM at His command. Then whenever He calls you forth out of the earth once and for all, you will (all) come forth! Irving

    Commentary:

    This is like the Ayat …

    (22: 65)…

    (35:41). Whenever `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, swore an emphatic oath, he would say, “No, by the One by Whose command the heaven and the earth stand,” i.e., THEY STAND FIRM by His command to them and His subjugation of them. Then, when the Day of Resurrection comes, the Day when the earth will be exchanged with another earth and the dead will come forth from their graves, brought back to life by His command and His call to them…

    Like

    • Q. 31:10

      He created the heavens without any pillars THAT YE CAN SEE; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs. Pickthall

      Commentary:

      means, the mountains which stabilize and lend weight to the earth, lest it should shake with its water…

      This statement makes it clear that the shaking is not at all about earthquakes as Muslims often claim.

      Q. 35:41

      Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the earth LEST THEY MOVE away from their places, and if they were TO MOVE away from their places, there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever Most Forbearing, Oft Forgiving. Hilali-Khan

      Commentary:

      means, LEST THEY SHOULD SHIFT FROM WHERE THEY ARE. This is like the Ayat …

      (22:65), and …

      (30:25) …

      means, no one can make them stay and preserve them except Him …

      One Muslim website candidly admits that the heavens and earth are in fact stationary according to the Quran:

      Question:
      ASSALAM-O-ALAIKUM, WHAT IS THE RULING OF SHARIA ON THE MOVEMENT OF EARTH.
      GIVE EXPLANATION.

      Answer:
      According to the teaching of Quran and Hadith, the sky and earth ARE STATIONARY and planets rotate. It is the sun that moves around the earth WHILE THE EARTH DOES NOT MOVE AROUND THE SUN.

      There are many verses of the Holy Quran that clearly show the rotation of the moon and the sun, which are given as under:

      1) “And made the sun and the moon subservient. Each runs to a turns stated” (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Al-Ra’ad (The Thunder)-13, verse 2)
      2) “And He made the sun and the moon subservient for you which are constantly moving” (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Ibraheem -14, verse 23)
      3) And each (The moon the sun) is floating in an orbit.” (Al-Quran, part 23, Sura Yaseen -36, verse 140)

      It is thus quiet [sic] clear that the sun moves and it is obligatory upon every muslim [sic] to believe it. Because it is what Allah Almighty ordains us to believe. In the light of the Holy Quran and Hadith the theory of the rotation of the earth IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Allah Almighty says: “Undoubtedly, Allah has withheld the heavens and the earth least they move.” (AL-Quran)

      In the book “Fiq-hus- Sahaba Baad-Al- Khulfa-e-Alarba” there has been recorded a statement/saying of k’ab in the presense [sic] of syedna Abdullah bin Masood, the man who keeps the secrets of messenger of Allah (pbuh) and syedna Huzaifa bin Alyaman (r.a.). This statement of K’ab is “The heaven revolves”. However, both Syedna Abdullah bin Masood (r.a.) and syedna Huzaifa bin Alyaman (r.a.) said agreeably that “K’ab said incorrect, and undoubtedly Allah has withheld the heaven and the earth least they move. And Abdullah Bin Masood (r.a.) supporting this statement added that Allah’s commandment is enough for us, and they (Heavens & Earth) do not move. This statement has been narrated by Saeed bin Mansoor (r.a.) and Abd bin Hameed son of Jareer, son of Almanzer (r.a.) and they narrated it with reference of Hafiz bin Abd ibne Hameed (r.a.).

      (The foregoing taken from a Muslim discussion board posting by PrinceZ£D; capital emphasis ours. The above is his transcribed/edited text of the answer given by the Imam of the site dawateislami.net, section “Ask the Imam”)

      Q. 40:64

      It is God who made for you the earth A FIXED PLACE and heaven for an edifice; And He shaped you, and shaped you well, and provided you with the good things. That then is God, your Lord, so blessed be God, the Lord of all Being. Arberry

      Commentary:

      means, `He made it STABLE and SPREAD IT OUT for you, so that you might live on it and travel about in it; He strengthened it with the mountains so that it does not shake with you’ …

      means, `a ROOF covering and protecting the world.’

      Q. 43:10

      (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way); Y. Ali

      Commentary:

      means, smooth, STABLE AND FIRM, so that you can travel about in it, and stand on it and sleep and walk about, even though it is created above water, but He has strengthened it with the mountains, lest it should shake.

      Q. 50:6-7

      What, have they not beheld heaven above them, how We have built it, and decked it out fair, AND IT HAS NO CRACKS? And the earth — We stretched it forth, and cast on it firm mountains, and We caused to grow therein of every joyous kind … Arberry

      Allah built the heavens without any cracks.

      Commentary:

      i.e., clefts, according to Mujahid. Others said that Furuj means, rifts, or cracks …

      This presupposes that the heavens are a physical object which has an actual hard surface that can crack.

      Q. 51:48

      And the earth WE have spread out, and how excellently do WE spread it out! Sher Ali

      Q. 55:10

      It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures: Pickthall

      Q. 67:3-5

      Who hath created seven heavens in harmony. Thou (Muhammad) canst see no fault in the Beneficent One’s creation; then look again: Canst thou see any RIFTS? Then look again and yet again, thy sight will return unto thee weakened and made dim. And verily We have beautified the world’s heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.

      Who could ever imagine and which scientist would accept that stars or meteors (i.e. lamps) are used as missiles against spirit beings like the devils?

      Commentary:

      meaning, look at the sky and pay close attention to it. Do you see any flaw, deficiency, defect or RIFTS in it Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhak, Ath-Thawri and others said concerning Allah’s statement …

      that it means CRACKS. As-Suddi said that …

      means any TEARS.

      Q. 71:15-20

      Have you not regarded how God created seven heavens one upon another, and set the moon therein for a light and the sun for a lamp? And God caused you to grow out of the earth, then He shall return you into it, and bring you forth. And God has laid the earth for you as a carpet, that thereof you may thread ways, ravines. Arberry

      The only way for there to be heavens piled on top of each other is if the author of the Quran erroneously assumed that the heavens were actual physical objects much like a metallic dome. This explains why the author of the Quran could talk about cracks in the heavens.

      Ibn Kathir, in his comments on S. 2:29, reiterates this very point by likening the creation of the heavens and earth to a building:

      These Ayat indicate that Allah started creation by creating earth, then He made heaven into seven heavens. This is how building usually starts, with the lower floors first and then the top floors, as the scholars of Tafsir reiterated, as we will come to know, Allah willing…

      Hence, Allah first created the earth, since it functioned much like the ground floor of a house, and then piled the heavens on top of each other in a similar manner to the way a bulider constructs several floors on top of one another!

      Here, now, are Ibn Kathir’s comments to Q. 71:15-20:

      meaning, He made a distinction between them (the sun and moon) in reference to their lighting. He made each one of them in a set manner with a distinct quality so that the night and day may be known. They (the night and day) are known by the rising and setting of the sun. He also determined fixed stations and positions for the moon, and He made its light vary so that sometimes it increases until it reaches a maximum, then it begins to decrease until it is completely veiled. This shows the passing of months and years …

      Q. 78:6-7

      Have WE not made the earth AS A BED, And the mountains AS PEGS? Sher Ali

      Commentary:

      meaning, an established, firm and peaceful resting place that is subservient to them …

      meaning, He made them AS PEGS for the earth TO HOLD IT IN PLACE, MAKE IT STABLE AND FIRM. This is so that it may be suitable for dwelling AND NOT QUAKE with those who are in it …

      Q. 79:27-30

      What, are you stronger in constitution or the heaven He built? He lifted up its vault, and levelled it, and darkened its night, and brought forth its forenoon; and the earth – after that He spread it out, Arberry

      The commentators Jalalayn write:

      and after that He spread out the earth: HE MADE IT FLAT, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out; (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; capital emphasis ours)

      Q. 88:20

      Nor even how the earth has been FLATTENED out? Irving

      The earth, how it was made FLAT? N.J. Dawood

      Commentary:

      meaning, how they have been erected. For indeed they are firmly affixed so that the earth does not sway with its dwellers. And He made them with the benefits and minerals they contain …

      meaning, how it has been spread out, extended and made smooth. Thus, He directs the bedouin to consider what he himself witnesses. His camel that he rides upon, the sky that is above his head, the mountain that faces him, and the earth that is under him, all of this is proof of the power of the Creator and Maker of these things. These things should lead him to see that He is the Lord, the Most Great, the Creator, the Owner, and the Controller of everything. Therefore, He is the God other than Whom none deserves to be worshipped.

      The two Jalals say:

      And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT, WHICH IS THE OPINION OF MOST OF THE SCHOLARS of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law. (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; capital emphasis ours)

      Q. 91:5-6

      By the heaven and That which built it and by the earth and That which extended it! Arberry

      Commentary:

      Mujahid said, “Tahaha means He spread it out.” Al-`Awfi reported from Ibn `Abbas that he said …

      “This means what He created in it.” `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported from Ibn `Abbas that he said, “Tahaha means that He proportioned it.” Mujahid, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak, As-Suddi, Ath-Thawri, Abu Salih and Ibn Zayd all said that…

      means, He spread it out …

      Tafsir al-Jalalayn states:

      and [by] the earth and the One Who spread it, LAID OUT FLAT.

      It should be obvious from the above verses that the author of the Quran erroneously believed in a flat earth kept stable by mountains. The author further erroneously thought that the sun and moon traveled throughout the heavens whereas the earth remained in a fixed position, motionless. Muslims cannot accuse us of misreading or misunderstanding the above passages. We presented the views of Ibn Kathir who provided citations from the early Muslims concurring with our interpretation.

      Like

    • Oy vei, this guy is clueless! We already dealt with this stupid! These verses are describing how the ground can be used for sitting or lying down or travelling. Humans do all these things. Get your head out of your rear-end, Shamu! You are embarrassing yourself with these angry rants!

      Like

      • You are a classic example of the brain damaged caused by smooching the black stone too much. THESE VERSES DO NOT SPEAK OF THE GROUND, YOU ILLITERATE STONE KISSER!

        In fact, to expose you for the demonized liar that you truly are, CITE ONE VERSE THAT SAYS THE EARTH IS A CIRCULAR OBJECT FLOATING IN SPACE! Don’t quote your garbage on 39:5 since that verse only proves that you got your brain all coiled up around the black stone you keep smooching.

        AND DO YOU AGREE TO LIVE MODERATED DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, SO I CAN BURY YOUR PROFIT IN ALLAH’S SHAMU OF A WHALE WHICH HE USES TO KEEP HIS FLAT EARTHS AFLOAT?

        Stop barking a,d bring your bite. You know what your vile profit said should be done with dogs like you.

        Like

      • HAHAHAHA, Shamu is now DOING ALL CAPS!! AS IF THAT MAKES HIS ARGUMENT STRONGER!!

        We don’t need a verse to say the Earth is a circular object floating in space, you dinbat. You have been unable to refute the proof regarding Surah 39:5, so you are hooting and howling as you usually do.

        Your Bible clearly teaches a flat earth cosmology, as conclusively demonstrated with Matthew 4:8 and the use of the word “kosmos”. There is no way out, Shamu.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. Your profit’s nightmares are just beginning.

    Islamic Cosmology in light of early Muslim exegesis of Surah 68:1

    We provide some more interpretations from recognized Islamic scholars and from Muslim traditions to show that they too believed in a flat, motionless earth. In this particular section the citations will center around the meaning of the letter Nun in surah 68:1:

    Nun. By the Pen and by the (Record) which (men) write,

    Since we already extensively quoted Ibn Kathir, we will start off this section with him as well. Ibn Kathir provides certain Muslim traditions explaining the letter Nun. What the readers are about to read may prove quite shocking, especially to those Muslims who have never heard of these traditions before.

    The citations are taken from the Arabic version of Ibn Kathir’s Commentary, since the English translation omits these traditions. As the readers begin to read them it will become obvious why these tales were omitted from the English version.

    We will not be quoting all of the traditions, but only those which are relevant to the early Muslim view of the cosmos.

    Before proceeding to the traditions, we would again like to richly thank our dear brother in the Lord Jesus, Dimitrius, for again taking the time out of his busy schedule to translate the Arabic for us. Without his help we wouldn’t be able to provide these translations to our English readers. May our risen Lord and immortal Savior, Jesus Christ, continue to richly bless him and his family.

    With that said, we now turn to the traditions.

    t was said that “Nun” refers to A GREAT WHALE that rides on the currents of the waters of the great ocean AND ON ITS BACK IT CARRIES THE SEVEN EARTHS, as was stated by Imam Abu Jafar Ibn Jarir. Narrated by Ibn Bashar, narrated by Yahya, narrated by Sufyan Al-Thuri, narrated by Sulayman Al-Amash, narrated by Abu Thubian, narrated by Ibn Abbas who related, “The first thing that Allah created was the pen and He said to it ‘Write’. The pen asked, ‘What shall I write?’ Allah said, ‘Write (the) fate (of everything).’ So the pen wrote everything that shall be from that moment until judgment day.

    Then Allah created the “Nun” and He caused steam to rise out of which the heavens were created AND THE EARTH WAS THEN LAID FLAT ON THE NUN’S BACK. Then the Nun became nervous and (as a result) the earth began to sway, but (Allah) fastened (the earth) with mountains lest the earth should move …

    It was narrated by Ibn Jarir, narrated by Ibn Hamid, narrated by Ata’a, narrated by Abu Al-Dahee, narrated by Ibn Abbas who stated, “The first thing my Lord created, may He be Exalted and Glorified, was the pen and He said to it, ‘Write.’ So the pen wrote all that will be until judgment day. Then Allah created the Nun (the whale) above the waters AND HE PRESSED THE EARTH INTO ITS BACK.

    Al Tabarani narrated the same hadith above (from the prophet Muhammad) who narrated from Abu Habib Zaid Al-Mahdi Al Marouzi, narrated by Sa’id Ibn Yaqub Al-Talqani, narrated by Mu’amal Ibn Ismail, narrated by Hamad Ibn Zaid, narrated by Ata’a Ibn Al Sa’ib, narrated by Abu Al Dahee Muslim Ibn Subaih, narrated by Ibn Abbas who stated that the prophet – may peace and blessing be upon him and his family – said, “The first things Allah created were the pen and the whale and He said to the pen ‘Write.’ The pen asked, ‘What shall I write?’ Allah replied, ‘Everything that shall be until judgment day.’ Then He said ‘Nun. By the Pen and by what they write.’ So Nun is the whale and al-Qalam is the pen” …

    Ibn Abu Nujaih stated that Ibrahim Ibn Abu Bakir was informed by Mujahid who said, “It was said that Nun is the great whale WHO IS UNDERNEATH THE SEVEN EARTHS.” Furthermore, Al-Baghawy – may Allah rest his soul – and a group of commentators stated that on the back of this whale there is a great rock whose thickness is greater than the width of the heavens and the earth and above this rock is A BULL THAT HAS FORTY THOUSAND HORNS. On the body of this bull are placed the seven earths and all that they contain, and Allah knows best.

    Like

    • AL-TABARI

      Here are the traditions which renowned Muslim historian al-Tabari transmitted regarding the meaning of surah 68:1. He basically repeats what Ibn Kathir wrote.

      Someone might say: If it is as you have described, namely, that God created the earth before the heaven, then what is the meaning of the statement of Ibn ‘Abbas told all of you by Wasil b. ‘Abd al-A‘la al-Asadi- Muhammad b. Fudayl- al-A‘mash- Abu Zabyan- Ibn ‘Abbas: The first thing God created is the Pen. God then said to it: Write!, whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write, my lord! God replied: Write what is predestined! He continued: And the Pen proceeded to (write) whatever is predestined and gong to be to the Coming of the Hour. God then lifted up the water vapor and split the heavens off from it. Then God created THE FISH (nun), AND THE EARTH WAS SPREAD OUT UPON ITS BACK. The fish became agitated, with the result that the earth was shaken up. It was steadied BY MEANS OF THE MOUNTAINS, for they indeed proudly (tower) over the earth.

      I was told about the same by Wasil – Waki’ – al-A‘mash – Abu Zabyan – Ibn ‘Abbas.

      According to Ibn al-Muthanna – Ibn Abi ‘Adi – Shu‘bah – Sulayman (al-A‘mash?) – Abu Zabyan – Ibn ‘Abbas: The first (thing) created by God is the Pen. It proceeded to (write) whatever is going to be. (God) then lifted up the water vapor, and the heavens were created from it. Then He created the fish, and the earth was spread out on its back. The fish moved, with the result that the earth was shaken up. It was steadied by means of the mountains, for the mountains indeed proudly (tower) over the earth. So he said, and he recited: “Nun. By the Pen and what they write.”

      I was told the same by Tamim b. al-Muntasir – Ishaq (b. Yusuf) – Sharik (b. ‘Abdallah al-Nakha‘i) – al-A‘mash – Abu Zabyan or Mujahid – Ibn ‘Abbas, with the exception, however, that he said: And the heavens were split off from it (instead of: were created).

      According to Ibn Bashshar – Yahya – Sufyan – Sulayman (al-A‘mash?) – Abu Zabyan – Ibn ‘Abbas: The first (thing) created by God is the Pen. God said: Write!, whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write? God replied: Write what is predestined! He continued. And (the Pen) proceeded to (write) whatever is predestined and going to be from that day on to the Coming of the Hour. Then God created the fish. He lifted up the water vapor, and heaven was split off from it, and the earth was spread out upon the back of the fish. The fish became agitated, and as a result, the earth was shaken up. It was steadied by means of the mountains, he continued, for they proudly (tower) over the earth.

      According to Ibn Humayd – Jarir (b. ‘Abd al-Hamid) – ‘Ata’ b. al-Sa’ib – Abu al-Duha Muslim b. Subayh – Ibn ‘Abbas: The first thing created by God is the Pen. God said to it: Write!, and it wrote whatever is going to be until the Coming of the Hour. Then God created the fish. Then he heaped up the earth upon it.

      This reportedly IS A SOUND TRADITION AS TRANSMITTED ON THE AUTHORITY OF IBN ‘ABBAS and on the authority of others in the sense commented upon and explained and does not contradict anything transmitted by us from him on this subject.

      Should someone ask: What comment on his authority and that of others proves the soundness of what you have transmitted to us in this sense on his authority? He should be referred to what I have been told by Musa b. Harun al-Hamdani – ‘Abdallah b. Mas‘ud and some (other) companions of the Messenger of God (commenting on): “He is the One Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He stretched out straight toward the heaven and fashioned it into seven heavens.” God’s throne was upon the water. He had not created anything except what He created before the water. When He wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke rose above the water and hovered loftily over it. He therefore called it “heaven.” Then He dried out the water, and thus made it one earth. He split it AND MADE IT INTO SEVEN EARTHS on Sunday and Monday. He created the earth UPON A (big) FISH (hut), THAT BEING THE FISH (nun) MENTIONED BY GOD IN THE QUR’AN: “Nun. By the Pen.” The fish was in the water. The water was UPON THE BACK OF A (small) ROCK. The rock was UPON THE BACK OF AN ANGEL. The angel was UPON A (big) ROCK. The big rock – THE ONE MENTIONED BY LUQMAN – WAS IN THE WIND, neither in heaven nor on the earth. The fish moved and became agitated. As a result, the earth quacked, whereupon He firmly, anchored the mountains on it, and it was stable. This is stated in God’s word that He made for the earth “firmly anchored (mountains), lest it should shake you up.”(The History of Al-Tabari: General Introduction and From the Creation to the Flood, translated by Franz Rosenthal [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany, 1989], Volume 1, pp. 218-220)

      Al-Tabari also wrote:

      According to Muhammad b. Sahl b. ‘Askar-Isma’il b. ‘Abd al-Karim-Wahb, mentioning some of his majesty (as being described as follows): The heavens and the earth and the oceans are in the haykal, and the haykal is in the Footstool. God’s feet are upon the Footstool. He carries the Footstool. It became like a sandal on His feet. When Wahb was asked: What is the haykal? He replied: Something on the heavens’ extremities that surrounds the earth and the oceans like ropes that are used to fasten a tent. And when Wahb was asked how earths are (constituted), he replied: They are seven earths that are FLAT and islands. Between each two earths, there is an ocean. All that is surrounded by the (surrounding) ocean, and the haykal is behind the ocean. (Ibid., pp. 207-208)

      AL-QURTUBI

      Narrated by Al-Walid Ibn Muslim, narrated by Malik Ibn Ans, narrated by Sumay son of Abu Bakir, narrated by Abu Salih Al-Samaan, narrated by Abu Hurayrah who related that he heard the prophet – peace be upon him – say, “The first thing Allah created was the pen, then He created the ‘Nun’ which is an inkwell. This is what Allah stated (in sura 68:1) ‘Nun and the Pen.’ And He said to it, ‘Write’. So the pen wrote all that will be until judgment day. Then Allah created the Nun (the whale) above the waters AND HE PRESSED THE EARTH INTO ITS BACK. He (Allah) then said to the pen ‘Write.’ The pen asked ‘What shall I write?’ Allah replied, ‘Write what was and what will be until judgment day; whether deed, reward, consequence and punishment- until judgment day.’ Thus the pen wrote what shall be until judgment day. Allah then placed a seal over the pen and it will not talk until judgment day. Then Allah created the mind and said, ‘By my Glory, I will establish you in those whom you love and I will take you away from those whom you despise.’”

      Mujahid related that ‘Nun’ is the whale that is underneath the seventh earth. He stated that the ‘Pen’ is what was used to write ‘Al-Thikir’ (The Remembrance – Quran). Likewise, it was also narrated by Mukatil, Murrah Al-Hamdani, Ata’ Al-Kharasani, Al Suddi and Al-Kalbi who all said, “Nun is the whale upon which all the earths are placed.”

      Narrated by Abu Thabyan, narrated by Ibn Abbas who said, “The first thing that Allah created was the Pen which wrote all that shall be. Then water vapor began to rise, out of which the heavens were created. Then (Allah) created Nun (the whale) and flattened the earth on its back. When the earth began to lean, it was reinforced with mountains, which are on its surface.” Then Ibn Abbas read the verse (Sura 68:1) ‘Nun and the Pen.’

      Al-Kalbi and Mukatil stated that the name (of the whale) is ‘Al-Bahmout.’ Al-Rajis said, “Why do I see you all silent and the Lord my God created Al-Bahmout?”

      Abu Yakthan and Al-Waqidi stated that the name (of the whale) is ‘Leotha’; Whereas Kab stated that its name is ‘Lo-tho-tha’ or ‘Bil-Ha-motha.’ Kab said, “Satan crept up to the whale, on whom the seven earths are placed, and whispered into its heart saying, ‘Do you realize what is on your back, Oh Lo-tho-tha of beasts and plants and humans and others? If you are annoyed with them, you can throw them all off your back.’ So Lo-tho-tha intended to do what was suggested (by Satan) but Allah sent the whale a reptile that crawled through into its blowhole and reached its brain. The whale then cried to Allah –may He be glorified and honored – and He gave permission for the reptile to exit (the whale).” Kab continued and said, “By Allah, the whale stares at the reptile and the reptile stares at the whale, and if the whale intends to do (what Satan suggested) the reptile would return to the place it was before.”

      TAFSIR IBN ABBAS

      And from his narration on the authority of Ibn ‘Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah’s saying (Nun): ‘(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya’; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called ‘Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah’s name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an inkwell. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth. It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam, (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs)

      Like

  7. Other Miscellaneous Traditions

    Seeing your stupid enought o produce such trash here’s what you get. Enjoy!

    The preceding Muslim commentators weren’t alone in narrating some fantastic interpretations. Hadith compilers like Abu Dawud had a few fabulous ones as well:

    Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib:
    I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them.

    The Apostle of Allah looked at it and said: What do you call this? They said: Sahab.

    He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there ARE EIGHT MOUNTAIN GOATS the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 40, Number 4705)

    Here is one from al-Tirmidhi:

    Narrated Anas ibn Malik
    Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said, “When Allah created the Earth it began to oscillate, so He created the mountains, ordered them onto it, and it became steady. The angels marvelled at the strength of the mountains and asked their Lord whether there was anything in His creation stronger than the mountains, to which He replied that iron was stronger. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than iron, and He replied that fire was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than fire and He replied that water was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than water and He replied that wind was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than wind and He replied, “Yes, the son of Adam who gives sadaqah with his right hand which concealing it from his left.” Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying this is a gharib tradition. (Al-Tirmidhi, Number 602; taken from the ALIM Version)

    This next final tradition is taken from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Kisa’i’s book Qisas al-Anbiya (Tales of the Prophets):

    Kaab al-Ahbar said: When God wished to create the dry land, He commanded the wind to churn up the waters. When they had become turbulent and foamy, waves swelled and gave off vapor. Then God commanded the foam to solidify, and it became dry. In two days he created the dry land on the face of the waters, as He hath said: Say, do ye indeed disbelieve in him who created the earth in two days? (41:9). Then He commanded these waves to be still, and they formed the mountains, which He used as pegs to hold down the earth, as He hath said: And we placed stable mountains on the earth lest it should move with them (21:31). Were it not for the mountains, the earth would not have been stable enough for its inhabitants. The veins of these mountains are connected with the veins of Mount Qaf, which is the range that surrounds the earth.

    Then God created the seven seas. The first is called Baytush and surrounds the earth from behind Mount Qaf. Behind it is a sea called Asamm, behind which is a sea called Qaynas, behind which is a sea called Sakin, behind which is a sea called Mughallib, behind which is a sea called Muannis, behind which is a sea called Baki, which is the last. These are the seven seas, and each of them surrounds the sea before it. The rest of the seas in which are creatures whose number only God knows, are like gulfs to these seven. God created sustenance for all these creatures on the fourth day, as He hath said: And he provided therein the food of the creatures designed to be the inhabitants thereof, in four days; equally, for those who ask (41:10).

    There are seven earths. The first is called Ramaka, beneath which is the Barren Wind, which can be bridled by no fewer than seventy thousand angels. With this wind God destroyed the people of Ad. The inhabitants of Ramaka are a nation called Muwashshim, upon whom is everlasting torment and divine retribution. The second earth is called Khalada, wherein are the implements of torture for the inhabitants of Hell. There dwells a nation called Tamis, whose food is their own flesh and whose drink is their own blood. The third earth is called Arqa, wherein dwell mulelike eagles with spearlike tails. On each tail are three hundred and sixty poisonous quills. Were even one quill placed on the face of the earth, the entire universe would pass away. The inhabitants thereof are a nation called Qays, who eat dirt and drink mothers’ milk. The fourth earth is called Haraba, wherein dwell the snakes of Hell, which are as large as mountains. Each snake has fangs like tall palm trees, and if they were to strike the hugest mountain with their fangs it would be leveled to the ground. The inhabitants of this earth are a nation called Jilla, and they have no eyes, hands or feet but have wings like bats and die only of old age. The fifth earth is called Maltham, wherein stones of sulphur hang around the necks of infidels. When the fire is kindled the fuel is placed on their breasts, and the flames leap up onto their faces, as He hath said: The fire whose fuel is men and stones (2:24), and Fire shall cover their faces (14:50). The inhabitants are a nation called Hajla, who are numerous and who eat each other. The sixth earth is called Sijjin. Here are the registers of the people of Hell, and their works are vile, as He hath said: Verily the register of the actions of the wicked is surely Sijjin (83:7). Herein dwells a nation called Qatat, who are shaped like birds and worship God truly. The seventh earth is called Ajiba and is the habitation of Iblis. There dwells a nation called Khasum, who are black and short, with claws like lions. It is they who will be given dominion over Gog and Magog, who will be destroyed by them.

    And the earth was tossed about with its inhabitants like a ship, so God sent down an angel of extreme magnitude and strength and ordered him to slip beneath the earth and bear it up on his shoulders. He stretched forth one of his hands to the East and the other to the West and took hold of the earth from end to end [Note: this again presumes that the earth is flat]. However, there was no foothold for him, so God created from an emerald a square rock, in the middle of which were seven thousand holes. In each hole there was a sea, description of which is known only to God. And He commanded the rock to settle beneath the angel’s feet. The rock, whoever, had no support, so God created a great bull with forty thousand heads, eyes, ears, nostrils, mouths, tongues and legs and commanded it to bear the rock on its back and on its horns. The name of the bull is al-Rayyan. As the bull had no place to rest its feet, God created a huge fish, upon which no one may gaze because it is so enormous and had so many eyes. It is even said that if all the seas were placed in one of its gills, they would be like a mustard seed in the desert. This fish God commanded to be a foothold for the bull, and it was done. The name of this fish is Behemoth. Then He made its resting place the waters, beneath which is the air, and beneath the air is the Darkness, which is for all the earths. There, beneath the Darkness, the knowledge of created things ends. (Ibid., translated by Wheeler M. Thackston Jr. [Great Books of the Islamic World, Inc., Distributed by Kazi Publications; Chicago, IL 1997], pp. 8-10)

    Here is a quick summary of what we discovered from the preceding sections, particularly from all of the traditions which are purported to have come from Muhammad and his companions such as Ibn Abbas, Muhammad’s cousin who is considered to be one of the most knowledge Muslims that have ever lived:

    Allah has spread out or flattened the earth on the back of a great fish (or whale).
    Allah created mountains to keep the earth from shaking due to the movement of the fish.
    The fish is floating in some extra-terrestrial water.
    The water is upon a rock.
    This rock is on the back of an angel.
    The angel himself is standing upon a rock.
    This other rock is supported by wind which is neither in the heavens nor the earth!
    Other traditions say that the great fish is underneath the seventh earth.
    On the fish’s back there is a rock the size of the heavens and earth.
    There is an ox upon this rock having 40,000 horns!
    Furthermore, this ox supports all the seven earths upon its back!
    Other traditions say that the ox is supported by the fish.
    There is a sea above the seventh heaven.
    Finally, above this seventh heaven there are eight mountain goats!

    After citing all these citations there can be no doubt that the author of the Quran, the first Muslims, and some of the earliest Muslim commentators, believed that the earth was flat. Furthermore, the evidence shows that the first Muslims held to erroneous and fanciful views of the cosmos that parallel the Greek and Indian myths and fairytales.

    Now contrast this with the simplicity of the Holy Bible:

    “He stretches out the north over the void and hangs the earth on nothing.” Job 26:7

    “It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;” Isaiah 40:22

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Finally, A Contradiction!

    As we saw above, the Quran in many places says that the earth has been spread out. In this next passage, the Quran proclaims that on the Day of Judgment the earth will be spread out:

    When the heaven bursts asunder, And hearkens unto her Lord – and this is incumbent upon her – And when the earth is SPREAD OUT (muddat) And cast out all that is in her, and appears to become empty S. 84:3-4 Sher Ali

    The earth being spread out at the end of time assumes that at the present moment it is not, which contradicts those passages that say it already has been stretched out! Note again the following citation:

    And He it is Who spread (madda) the earth and made in it firm mountains and rivers, and of all fruits He has made in it two kinds; He makes the night cover the day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect. S. 13:3 Shakir

    Lest someone deny that surah 84 is referring to the end of time we present the comments of Ibn Kathir:

    Splitting the Heavens asunder and stretching the Earth forth on the Day of Resurrection

    Allah says …

    This refers to the Day of Judgement …

    meaning, it listens to its Lord and obeys His command to split apart. This will occur on the Day of Judgement …

    meaning, it is right for it to obey the command of its Lord, because it is great and cannot be rejected, nor overcome. Rather it overpowers everything and everything is submissive to it. Then Allah says …

    meaning, when the earth is expanded, spread out and extended …

    Hence, not only does the Quran hold to an erroneous view of the cosmos, it even contradicts itself regarding the current state and shape of the earth!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Fatty Shamy is getting desperate!

      Surah 84:3 refers to the changes that the earth will undergo on the Day of Judgement. According to The Study Quran:

      “[it] means when all that is upon it is made flat (cf. 20:105-107)” (p. 1493).

      Sammy is so stupid, he doesn’t realize that this verse actually refutes the flat earth argument further! The earth will be violently flattened on the Day of Judgment. This idea is reinforced in Surah 84:21:


      كَلَّا إِذَا دُكَّتِ الْأَرْضُ دَكًّا دَكًّا
      Nay! When the earth is pounded to powder”

      The words “dukkati” and “dakkan” suggest a violent breaking or crushing, as Lane’s Lexicon explains. See here for a screenshot:

      https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ereDH67AcjufLo3J1E9PhZl-ZPr1S6th

      Lane explains it as “when the earth shall be made level, without hills and without mountains: or it means, shall become fine dust scattered: or shall be shaken so that every building thereon shall be demolished and non-existent.”

      So there is no contradiction, Fatty Shammy. It’s just more evidence of your incompetence.

      Liked by 2 people

      • I know it’s Muhammad’s fault for turning you into a rabid dog and for hating day people since he treated your fatty mother Sauda like a whore bit don’t blame for his filth.

        Now to bury your profit further Q. 84 says nothing about turning the earth to powder. It uses the same word for flat in the other verses but your too brain damaged from smooching the black stone to read properly. And as if you couldn’t expose how wickedly dishonest you and your god are you ran to 89:21 which has nothing to do with 84:3-4. But that’s what you get for Following a pedophile profit.

        The fact is you can’t flatten out the earth anymore seeing that your demon already made it flat from the start. This is why you won’t debate me but choose to bark here like a rabid dog. I don’t blame you since I wouldn’t want to defend your filthy profit either if I were you.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lol!!! Sammy knows better than the lexicond folks! All the moron can do is mouth off like a 12 year old! Is this the best your pagan cult can offer? You got schooled over and over again you fat trinitarian clown. Now go eat some more rabbit turds on your god’s very high mountain. 😂

        Like

  9. Now that I muzzled you and buried you so deep within Allah’s flat earths suspending by Allah’s whales, and his eight goats, time for you to man up and debate me in a live moderated exchange so we see how confident you are defending your stupidity and Muhammad’s trash. You now have all my arguments so you have no excuse to run away like a rapid lil puppy who can only bark.

    TIME AND DATE!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oh man, this guy kills me with laughter! Seriously, you’re like a 12 year old picking fights in the school yard!

      How are those rabbit turds, Sammy? I don’t know why you keep refusing to answer this question?

      And how about your embarrassing flat earth in Matthew 4:8?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Instead of barking like the rabid dog you are, are you going to debate me in a live moderated forum so you can school me and expose me for all to see? Come on stone smoocher, please embarrass me for all to see!

        Liked by 1 person

      • LOL, the only one barking here is you, you silly Gentile mutt! Foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog, and unable to respond with any substantive argument, only mindless babble.

        How many times do I have to say it stupid? I don’t do debates. I prefer written correspondence. Even if I did do debates, I would not waste my time with a loud-mouth clown such as yourself.

        How are those rabbit turds? Maybe you will enjoy them more on a very high mountain so you can have a nice view of the whole world! 😉

        Like

      • I already schooled you and exposed you for all to see!

        Like

      • Haha this is embarrassing. Running away from debating him. 😂

        Liked by 1 person

      • Haha, Sammy’s cheerleaders are trying to support him in his time of need. How sweet. 🥰

        Like

      • Since your Lord and master is apparently unable to offer a substantive rebuttal, perhaps you can offer your two cents. Did you read the article? Perhaps you can explain the embarrassing flat Earth error in Matthew 4:8?

        Like

      • And the idiot is quoting Israelliyat stories! This fat pig is beyond moronic.
        None of the things Q&B brought was refuted fatass and u know it.

        And another thing. He says people call him triple B: big, bold, beautiful (lol yea right!!!). But the truth is that he is in fact triple F: fat, filthy, fraud!

        Enjoy your flat earth that satan took ur loser god to a mountain to “see the kingdoms of the earth”.

        Liked by 1 person

      • This guy suffers from delusions of grandeur. 😂

        Liked by 1 person

      • If we apply your logic to you. That will make Atlas your cheerleader and your in need. I saw Sam name and came straight to the comment section. Knowing he will challenge you to a debate. I just wanted to know if you will run away or not. It’s ok, if your scared.

        Like

      • Lol, so just like your master, you will not respond to the embarrassing error in your so-called “new” testament. I see. It’s okay, if you’re clueless.

        Like

      • And unlike you, Atlas responded to fatty shammy and further refuted him. You, on the other hand, are not offering anything except cheerleading. 🤣

        Liked by 1 person

      • I understand you need help from Atlas. Maybe if he hold your hand, you will get the courage to do the debate? I’m trying to get Paul Williams to debate someone else. I hope he is not like you but he have the courage. If he do accept the challenge I will have a lot of respect for him. But I can’t take you seriously.

        Like

      • Aww, so still scared? I understand sweetie. You’re just a brainless puppet or should I say a secretary for your masters?

        Like

      • He doesn’t “need” my help. You are just here to play the “O he doesn’t accept the paypal/skype debate with fatty shamoun so now I can feel good and claim a victory by calling him a coward” game. Q&B is right. You’re just a cheerleader. Nothing more. Notging less.
        How about you accept the challenge offered by Q&B and actually give refutation. Since you haven’t done so far let met play your childish game and call you a coward for running away.

        Liked by 1 person

      • If you want an answer take the challenge and debate him. It’s that simple. I feel sorry for you it’s very embarassing. 😥 I love seeing Muslim running away from debating. It’s hillarious. Anyway, your wasting my time. If your not brave enough to debate, your not worth anyone time. We’ll talk again if you suddenly find the courage. 😊

        Like

      • Aww, the puppet/secretary is still scared. 😥😥😥

        You’re master has been embarrassed. That’s why he thumps his chest to give the illusion of how tough he is. I don’t do debates, as I have already explained. I prefer written correspondence. If I was scared if him, do you think I would be writing these refutations of your fat master? Come on miss piggie. Use your head, silly muppet!

        Liked by 2 people

      • So come on miss piggie, find your courage and defend your gospel from getting shredded. Do you have the brains to think for yourself or will you remain a muppet zombie serving your incompetent masters?

        Like

      • You just prove to me that your mother is miss piggy. Because a lady will not have a son using that kind of language. Keep up the nasty name calling and language. Prove to me how much of a pig education your mother gave you. Your nasty language might upgrade her from miss piggy to queen piggy lol. Come on, make my day. 😊. Your language will prove if your mother was a lady or a pig. Come on upgrade her status to Queen piggy.

        Like

      • Lol so according to this simpleton and her braindead logic, she herself is scared and runnibg away from a debate or writing a refutation. Weak religion with its weak followers indeed.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Make my day. Keep on with the name calling. As a son who name call a woman prove your mother was not a lady. A lady don’t have son with bad manners like you. Keep proving your mother was not a lady but the queen of pigs. Keep going bring more shame to your mother. You already put dirt on her. Keep going. Make her even more filthy. And I choose Paul over a child molester any day. Muhammad is not worth kissing the feet of Paul. Muhammad was repulsive. I will throw up if I was a follower of Muhammad. Your going to embarrass yourself when you mention Paul when your a follow of a child molester.

        Like

      • 😂😂😂 Still running huh? You think I care what some trinitarian manworshiper says? You can join your demonic apostle in hell, miss Piggie. I couldn’t care less.

        Now, come on. Teach the men. Paul isn’t here to stop you. Don’t run away. Surely you can be something better than a brainwashed zombie. So, how about it? Matthew 4:8?

        Like

      • Hell is having to spend eternity with Muhammad. Anything is better than spending eternity with this repulsive man. Your really struggling to defend the honor of your mother. Show us she raise up a respectable man. Not a piggy who raise up a man who use name calling and nasty language. Stop bring shame to your mother. But I guess you can’t help it. You’re next message your going to put her down again. Go on put some more dirt on her. 😊 Go on keep proving me right. Maybe you were abandon by her, she never loved you. Maybe that why you don’t mind.

        Like

      • 😂 No Miss Piggy, hell will be where you will burn along with your pagan apostle for your heresy.

        Now, Matthew 4:8…still too scared? Your holy spirit is tongue-tied? 😉

        Like

      • “Muhammad was a childmolester” coming from a crosstian who believes her god was squeezed out of a vagina.
        The Prophet having intercourse with Aisha they cannot accept (eventhough in its historical context it there is nothing wrong with it) but they swallow the belief of their so called holy god getting in his entirety squeezed out of a vagina.
        What a religion.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Not to mention that their god’s mother was probably around 12 years old! And this is the same god who told the Israelites to spare the young virgin girls for themselves!

        Like

      • And just to put you in your place a little bit more, here is what your mangod said about loving your parents:
        If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

        You keep spewing insults and then have audacity to say that we are giving a bad name to our mothers? This is how crosstians are folks. They will insult you till they drop dead and pretend that they somehow have that right while at the same time when as muslim responds back with insults they will become the most vile hypocrite scum on the their flat earth and try and play the mammy card.

        Bitch start refuting or get lost. You are just as pathetic as fatty shamoun.

        Liked by 1 person

      • If you want to go with probably 12 years old that fine. We will need up having the spirit of Allah blowing into a woman private part. Haha that would make the spirit of Allah a child molester like your dirty prophet. Now we have the spirit of Allah and Muhammad both child molester. Both of them not worth licking the dirt off the feet of Muhammad. Tell me did Muhammad keep the young virgin Aisha for himself or did he share her around? 😂

        Like

      • Oh silly Miss Piggie, that would have been the average age at that time. How old do you think she was? And don’t tell me she was around 17 or 18! 🤣🤣🤣

        You can lick your demon apostle’s feet all you want in hell! What’s with you and feet anyway? Gross!

        Like

      • A child not a woman* Since you think she was probably 12. Interestingly, the spirit of Allah child molest a 12 years old according to you. The most bless woman in your religion. A title that Muhammad pagan mother did not have, not this little child bride.

        Like

      • 😂😂😂 look at the deflection! Your savior’s mother was a 12 year old, you dingbat! Not only that, but your god gave little virgin girls to his marauding hordes to use for themselves!

        Like

      • No response to a single thing i said in the comments. Instead she says that blowing into a skirt = molestation/sexual. This is what a crosstian has to go to to try and hide the fact that their porngod was squeezed out of a vagina.
        And if Muhammad (saw) was a pedophile theb thank you for saying that the entire world were pedophiles and perverts to cus of the countless of critisism that were written against him, not ONE brought up the age of Aisha as an issue. You can determine what people think and didn’t think and what people believed and didn’t believe by looking at many writings and make conclusions like historians do all the time. Not one document before the 20th century says anything about Aisha’s age. You go to any comment section about the prophet or buy any book criticising him and Aisha’s age is one of the first things that will be brought up. Hence why it is concluded that such people propagate the narrative that pretty much the entire world were filled with perverts and pedofiles without them realising they are doing that while speaking bad of the Aisha so called issue. The hilarious thing about it is that most of the critisism before the 20th century are from christians themselves XD. You bring that narrative to historians and watch them laugh at you.
        Wonder where the holy potato was when all his followers were pedos and pervs according to this dumb bitch’s logic. Probably on a vacation.

        Liked by 1 person

      • You bring up Paul then change suject to Mary and the old testament. Both backfires on you. You’re the one who thinks she was 12. That makes the spirit of Allah a child molester like your prophet. Stop tap dancing. You can’t attack Paul that why you attack Mary and Moses. Because you know the child molester is not worth kissing the feet of Paul. Stop embarrassing yourself.

        Like

      • Oy vei, miss Piggy is dense! The average age of marriage would have been around 12 years you idiot. Your false apostle would have had no problem with that. Of course we know that the dummy thought the world was ending, so he advised his idiotic followers to put off marriage and just wait until the end came. What a moron! 😆😆😆

        Your false apostle also would have no problem with the little midianite virgins being passed around for your god’s hordes.

        And lest we forget, are you still running scared of your god’s flat Earth? Aww, little miss Piggie scared stuff!

        Like

      • I think miss piggie has some weird foot fetish. Or would it be hooves? 🤣

        Like

      • So the average age was 12 years old for marriage; 600 years before your prophet. Thank you for sharing how your prophet was a child molester compare to the jews who lived 600 years before him. Thank you for confirming your prophet was backward and a child molester. Let be generous, let assume Paul will allow marriage at 12. Well your backward prophet came 600 years later. And accepted 6 years old. Even if I’m generous, Muhammad still lose to Paul. Half the age, 600 years later. Muhammad still not worth kissing the dirt on Paul feet. 😂.

        Like

      • I can’t believe you just make a case the apostle and Jews 600 years before accepted average of 12. And yet your prophet accept marriage at 6. He even consume the marriage at 9. 6 and 9 both is still less than 12. Unbelievable how stupid you are.

        Liked by 1 person

      • “So the average age was 12 years old for marriage; 600 years before your prophet. Thank you for sharing how your prophet was a child molester compare to the jews who lived 600 years before him. Thank you for confirming your prophet was backward and a child molester. Let be generous, let assume Paul will allow marriage at 12. Well your backward prophet came 600 years later. And accepted 6 years old. Even if I’m generous, Muhammad still lose to Paul. Half the age, 600 years later. Muhammad still not worth kissing the dirt on Paul feet. 😂.”

        LOL!! Miss Piggy is one dense muppet!

        So you think marrying a 12 year old is okay Miss Piggie? And yes, your false apostle would have allowed it. Did he say anything otherwise? When he mentioned marriage, he advised his followers that it was better to put it off because the world was ending. He never spoke out against the common practice of the time. Moreover, the “average” age means that it could have been later or earlier as well! You see Miss Piggy, this is how math works. An “average” is when you add all numbers and divide. So if the age was 12, that means that girls even younger could get married.

        Moreover, the main stipulation was sexual maturity, which meant puberty. We know from the hadiths that hazrat Aisha (ra) was already menstruating when she moved in with the Prophet. Pedophilia is defined as a sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. They are not the same thing.

        We also know that your false apostle, whose feet you are evidently quite obsessed with (yuck!), would have had no problem with your god giving little virgin girls as slaves to his marauding hordes. How old were these girls, Miss Piggie? Are you going to run away from answering this question too?

        Like

      • “I can’t believe you just make a case the apostle and Jews 600 years before accepted average of 12. And yet your prophet accept marriage at 6. He even consume the marriage at 9. 6 and 9 both is still less than 12. Unbelievable how stupid you are.”

        Oy vei, Miss Piggie is one brainless muppet!

        Who said Jews accepted 12 years as the age of marriage? Yes, it was the norm in the Roman Empire, but the marriage age could have fluctuated among the Jews. Neither your mangod nor your demonic apostle Paul denounced this norm. To make things worse, your god used this norm to be born into this world. You still haven’t answered my question (I know, what else is new, right?). How old do you think Mary was when she became pregnant with your mangod?

        Jewish law technically allowed marriage as early as age 3, but of course, that does not include sexual intercourse (http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/573,2485/What-is-the-minimum-age-of-marriage-according-to-Jewish-law.html). Nor was it widely encouraged by the scholars.

        Now I ask again: Are you saying it is acceptable to marry a 12 year old?

        Liked by 1 person

    • O and fatass, Bassam Zawadi humiliated you on your braindead articles that you keep repeating over and over again.

      https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__the_qur_an_and_the_shape_of_the_earth_

      Liked by 2 people

      • I know that your mother Sauda was fat ass blob which is why your woman whoring demon Muhammad treated her like garbage but don’t blame me for what the filth did. And here’s what I did to Zawadi and his god:

        https://answeringislam.net/rebuttals/zawadi.html

        https://answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/index.htm#zawadi

        Keep barking and watch how I humiliate your filthy profit.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Fatty shammy, still acting like a buffoon and showing the true face of Christianity! 😂😂😂

        Liked by 1 person

      • Buahahaha fatty!!! So I gave you the article on the flat earth that you got bitchslapped with and now you switch to Sauda???? Buahahahhaa!!!!
        Poor fatty.
        Bassam Zawadi is your total nightmare. The way he bitchslappes and humiliated you everytime is hilarious.

        And btw fatty, Sauda gave the day up from herself. The prophet never forced her or threatened her into it. She was already old and unpretty when he married her you dumbass.
        So you’re stupid as fuck! Desperate attempt to deflect to a topic which has nothing whatsoever to do with the things that are brought up and even on that you get bitchslapped and refuted.
        Pathetic.

        Coming back to the flat earth subject: why does your pornbook promote a flat earth when the devil took your pussy god to a mountain to show him the kingdoms of the world???
        Stop quoting the Israelliyat dumbass, you’re embarrasing yourself as if you haven’t done that enough already.

        Read the article of Bassam Zawadi and realize the bitchslap you received you fat ugly fuck.

        It’s hilarious how you despiratly try and be this guy who always says things like “Now that I have muzzled you” or “Watch as I humiliate your profit” ans soooo desperate that you want believe that and are hoping that we will be like “O noooooo the great Shamoun has silenced us and humiliated us. Oooo deaar!!” But in reality we laugh at you and bitchslap you and your idiotic comic articles which only impress the most simple minded imbeciles!!!! Buahahahahahaha.
        You keep getting bitchslapped over and over and over again. You got humiliated on your flat earth trash you copy pasted from your pagan dogshit website. You couldn’t refute any verses of the bible indicating a flat earth even when Q&B used your braindead methodology.
        Poor poor fatty. Fat, ugly and stupid. No more wife either. Can’t say I blame her. Look in the mirror. You are as ugly from the inside as you are are from the outside.
        You filthy piece of trash. Do the world a favor and and keep eating krabby patties until you drop dead.
        How does it feel fatty? To copy past fifty trash articles that got bitchslapped over and over again and still failing at defending your pornbook?
        What a joke!!!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Wait, Sammy isn’t married anymore? Oh, I’m sorry Sammy. I truly am.

        Like

      • Speaking of “fat ass”, let me bury your profit further into Sauda’s “fat ass”. Here’s how your greatest Muslim scholars interepted your filthy book of porn. Now the good thing about all this is that all these references from the Quran, hadiths and Muslim scholars are all posted here for all to see how stupid and irrational your god and profit truly are for teaching thigns such as seven flat earths suspended on the back of a whale in the shape of your mothers and sauda, with eight mountain goats to boot! And when you are man enough to get your girlfriend quranisfilthlikemyprofitblog and yourself to debate me do shoot me an email. In the meantime, enjoy all these posts as all the non-Muslims will read and laugh at your profit’s filth and stupidity!

        when we look at the earliest Muslim records we discover that Muhammad and his followers believed that the moon, much like the sun, emanated its own light. They did not believe that the moon simply reflected the light emanating from the sun. Al-Tabari quotes a tradition from Muhammad on the authority of Ibn ‘Abbas where the former extensively comments on the orbit of the sun and moon. The following lengthy quotation is taken from the History of al-Tabari, Volume 1- General Introduction and from the Creation to the Flood (trans. Franz Rosenthal, State University of New York Press, Albany 1989), pp. 231-237:

        Among the traditions transmitted from the Messenger of God on this subject is what I have been told by Muhammad b. Abi Mansur al-Amuli- Khalaf b. Wasil- Abu Nu’aym `Umar b. Subh al-Balkhi- Muqatil b. Hayyan- `Abd al-Rahman b. Abza- Abu Dharr al-Ghifari: I walked hand in hand with the Prophet around evening when the sun was about to set. We did not stop looking at it until it had set. He continued. I asked the Messenger of God: Where does it set? He replied: It sets in the heaven and is then raised from heaven to heaven until it is raised to the highest, seventh heaven. Eventually, when it is underneath the Throne, it falls down and prostrates itself, and the angels who are in charge of it prostrate themselves together with it. The sun then says: My Lord, whence do You command me to rise, from where I set or from where I rise? He continued. This is (meant by) God’s word: “And the sun: It runs to a place where it is to reside (at night)” – where it is held underneath the Throne – “That is decreed by One Mighty and Knowing” — by “this” is meant the procedure of the “mighty” Lord in His royal authority, the Lord Who is “knowing” about His creation. He continued. Gabriel brings to the sun a garment of luminosity from the light of the Throne, according to the measure of the hours of the day. It is longer in the summer and shorter in the winter, and of intermediate length in autumn and spring. He continued. The sun puts on that garment, as one of you here puts on his garment. Then, it is set free to roam in the air of heaven until it rises whence it does. The Prophet said: It is as if it had been held for three nights. Then it will not be covered with luminosity and will be commanded to rise from where it sets. This is (meant by) God: “When the sun shall be rolled up.” He continued. The same course is followed by the moon in its rising, its running on the horizon of the heaven, its setting, its rising to the highest, seventh heaven, its being held underneath the Throne, its prostration, and its asking for permission. But Gabriel brings it a garment from the light of the Footstool. He continued. This is (meant by) God’s word: “He made the sun a luminosity and the moon a light.” Abu Dharr concluded: Then I went away together with the Messenger of God and we prayed the evening prayer. This report from the Messenger of God indicated that the only difference between the condition of the sun and that of the moon is that the luminosity of the sun comes from the wrap of the luminosity of the Throne with which the sun was covered, while the light of the moon comes from a wrap of the light of the Footstool with which the moon was covered.

        The other report, referring to a different concept, is what I was told by Muhammad b. Abi Mansur- Khalaf b. Wasil- Abu Nu’aym- Muqatil b. Hayyan- Ikrimah: One day when Ibn `Abbas was sitting (at home or in the mosque), a man came to him and said: Ibn `Abbas, I heard Ka’b, the Rabbi, tell a marvelous story about the sun and the moon. He continued. Ibn `Abbas who had been reclining sat up and asked what it was. The man said: He suggested that on the Day of Resurrection, the sun and the moon will be brought as if they were two hamstrung oxen, and flung into Hell. `Ikrimah continued. Ibn `Abbas became contorted with anger and exclaimed three times: Ka’b is lying! Ka’b is lying! Ka’b is lying! This is something Jewish he wants to inject into Islam. God is too majestic and noble to mete out punishment where there is obedience to Him. Have you not heard God’s word: “And He subjected to you the sun and the moon, being constant” — referring to their constant obedience. How would He punish two servants that are praised for constant obedience? May God curse that rabbi and his rabbinate! How insolent is he toward God and what a tremendous fabrication has he told about those two servants that are obedient to God! He continued. Then he said several times: We return to God. He took a little piece of wood from the ground and started to hit the ground with it. He did that for some time, then lifting his head he threw away the little piece of wood and said: You want me to tell you what I heard the Messenger of God say about the sun and the moon and the beginning of their creation and how things went with them? We said: We would, indeed, May God show mercy unto you. He said: When the Messenger of God was asked about that, he replied: When God was done with His creation and only Adam remained to be created, He created two suns from the light of His Throne. His foreknowledge told Him that He would leave here one sun, so He created it as (large as) this world is from east to west. His foreknowledge also told Him that He would efface it and change it to a moon; so the moon is smaller in size than the sun. But both are seen as small because of the sun’s altitude and remoteness from the earth.

        He continued: If God had left the two suns as He created them in the beginning, night would not have been distinguishable from day. A hired man then would not know until when he should labor and when he should receive his wages. A person fasting would not know until when he must fast. A woman would not know how to reckon the period of her impurity. The Muslims would not know the time of the pilgrimage. Debtors would not know when their debts become due. People in general would not know when to work for a livelihood and when to stop for resting their bodies. The Lord was too concerned with His servants and too merciful to them (to do such a thing). He thus sent Gabriel to drag his wing three times over the face of the moon, which at the time was a sun. He effaced its luminosity and left the light in it. This is (meant by) God’s word: “And We have made the night and the day two signs. We have blotted out the sign of the night, and We have made the sign of the day something to see by.” He continued. The blackness you can see as lines on the moon is a trace of the blotting. God then created for the sun a chariot with 360 handholds from the luminosity of the light of the Throne and entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting the lower heaven with the sun and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds. He entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting (the lower?) heaven with the moon and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds.

        Then he said: For the sun and the moon, He created easts and wests (positions to rise and set) on the two sides of the earth and the two rims of heaven, 180 springs in the west of black clay – this is (meant by) God’s word: “He found it setting in a muddy spring,” meaning by “muddy (hami’ah)” black clay – and 180 springs in the east likewise of black clay, bubbling and boiling like a pot when it boiled furiously. He continued. Every day and night, the sun has a new place where it rises and a new place where it sets. The interval between them from beginning to end is longest for the day in summer and shortest in winter. This is (meant by) God’s word: “The Lord of the two easts and the Lord of the two wests,” meaning the last (position) of the sun here and the last there. He omitted the positions in the east and the west (for the rising and setting of the sun) in between them. Then He referred to east and west in the plural, saying; “(By) the Lord of the easts and wests.” He mentioned the number of all those springs (as above).

        He continued. God created an ocean three farsakhs (18 kilometers) removed from heaven. Waves contained, it stands in the air by the command of God. No drop of it is spilled. All the oceans are motionless, but that ocean flows at the rate of the speed of an arrow. It is set free to move in the air evenly, as if it were a rope stretched out in the area between east and west. The sun, the moon, and the retrograde stars run in its deep swell. This is (meant by) God’s word: “Each swims in a sphere.” “The sphere” is the circulation of the chariot in the deep swell of that ocean. By Him Who holds the soul of Muhammad in His hand! If the sun were to emerge from that ocean, it would burn everything on earth, including even rocks and stones, and if the moon were to emerge from it, it would afflict (by its heat) the inhabitants of the earth to such and extent that they would worship gods other than God. The exception would be those of God’s friends whom He would want to keep free from sin.

        Ibn `Abbas said that `Ali b. Abi Talib said to the Messenger of God: You are like my father and my mother! You have mentioned the course of the retrograde stars (al-khunnas) by which God swears in the Qur’an, together with the sun and the moon, and the rest. Now, what are al-khunnas? The Prophet replied: `Ali, they are five stars: Jupiter (al-birjis), Saturn (zuhal), Mercury (`utarid), Mars (bahram), and Venus (al-zuhrah). These five stars rise and run like the sun and the moon and race with them together. All the other stars are suspended from heaven as lamps are from mosques, and circulate together with heaven praising and sanctifying God with prayer. The Prophet then said: If you wish to have this made clear, look to the circulation of the sphere alternately here and there. It is the circulation of heaven and the circulation of all the stars together with it except those five. Their circulation today is what you see, and that is their prayer. Their circulation to the Day of Resurrection is as quick as the circulation of a mill because of the dangers and tremors of the Day of resurrection. This is (meant by) God’s word: “On a day when the heaven sways to and fro and the mountains move. Woe on that day unto those who declare false (the Prophet’s divine message).”

        He continued. When the sun rises, it rises upon its chariot from one of those springs accompanied by 360 angels with outspread wings. They draw it along the sphere, praising and sanctifying God with prayer, according to the extent of the hours of night and the hours of day, be it night or day. When God wishes to test the sun and the moon, showing His servants a sign and thereby asking them to stop disobeying Him and to start to obey, the sun tumbles from the chariot and falls into the deep of that ocean, which is the sphere. When God wants to increase the significance of the sign and frighten His servants severely, all of the sun falls, and nothing of it remains upon the chariot. That is a total eclipse of the sun, when the day darkens and the stars come out. When God wants to make a partial sign, half or a third or two-thirds of it fall into the water, while the rest remains upon the chariot, this being a partial eclipse. It is a misfortune for the sun or for the moon. It frightens His servants and constitutes a request from the Lord (for them to repent). However this may be, the angels entrusted with the chariot of the sun divide into two groups, one that goes to the sun and pulls it toward the chariot, and another that goes to the chariot and pulls it toward the sun, while at the same time they keep it steady in the sphere, praising and sanctifying God with prayer, according to the extent of the hours of day or the hours of night, be it night or day, summer or winter, autumn or spring between summer and winter, lest the length of night and day be increased in any way. God has given them knowledge of that by inspiration and also the power for it. The gradual emergence of the sun or the moon from the deep of that ocean covering them which you observe after an eclipse (is accomplished by) all the angels together who, after having brought out all of it, carry it (back) and put it upon the chariot. They praise God that He gave them the power to do that. They grip the handholds of the chariot and draw it in the sphere, praising and sanctifying God with prayer. Finally, they bring the sun to the west. Having done so; they put it into the spring there, and the sun falls from the horizon of the sphere into the spring.

        Tabari continues to comment about the role the sun and moon will play at the end of the world:

        “When this takes place, the sun will be held underneath the Throne for one night. Whenever it prostrates itself and asks for permission (to proceed to) whence it should rise, it is given no answer until the moon joins it and prostrates itself together with the sun and asks for permission (to proceed to) whence it shall rise. The moon, too, is not given an answer. Finally, (the angel?) will hold the sun for three nights and the moon for two nights …” (Ibid., p. 239)

        Ibn Kathir also indicates that the moon has its very own light:

        the sun with its own light and its own path and orbit and allotted time, and the moon which shines with a different light and travels on a different path and has its own allotted time.” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir- Abridged Volume 6 Surat Al-Isra’, Verse 39 to the end of Surat Al Mu’minun, p. 444; bold emphasis ours)
        (78:13). means, shining and illuminated by the light of something else, different from the light of the sun…” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir- Abriged Volume 7 Surat An-Nur to Surat Al-Ahzab, Verse 50, pp. 193-194)

        Furthermore, Ibn Kathir much like Tabari claims that the Quran teaches that both the sun and moon are orbiting, yet with one added twist. Ibn Kathir states that the earth is not orbiting, but rather remains in a fixed position!

        It was said that this means, each runs within its limits, or it means until the Day of Resurrection; both meanings are correct. The first view is supported by the Hadith of Abu Dharr, may Allah be pleased with Him, in the Two Sahihs, according to which the Messenger of Allah said:

        O Abu Dharr! Do you know where this sun goes? I (Abu Dharr) said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.” He said:

        It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it seeks permission from its Lord, and soon it will be said: “Go back from whence you came.”

        Ibn Hatim recorded that Ibn ‘Abbas said, “The sun is like flowing water, running its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels its course BENEATH THE EARTH until it rises in the east.” He said, “The same is true in the case of the moon.” Its chain of narration is Sahih. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Volume 7, pp. 593-594; capital emphasis ours)

        This leaves us with the impression that whereas the sun and moon are traveling around the earth, the earth remains stationary. This is precisely what Ibn Kathir later claims, namely that the earth is stationary. Commenting on S. 27:61, Ibn Kathir states:

        meaning, STABLE AND STATIONARY, SO THAT IT DOES NOT MOVE OR CONVULSE, because if it were to do so, it would not be a good place for people to live on. But by His grace and mercy, He has made it smooth and calm, and it is not shaken or moved… (Ibid., p. 341; capital emphasis ours)

        In light of the preceding statements, we are left with the conclusion that Islamic cosmogony is geocentric in nature, a fact solidified by Ibn Kathir’s comment on S. 25:45-46:

        Ibn ‘Abbas, Ibn ‘Umar, Abu Al-‘Aliyah, Abu Malik, Masruq, Mujahid, Sa’id bin Jubyar, An-Nakha’i, Ad-Dahhak, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, As-Suddi and others said, “This refers to the period from the beginning of the dawn until the sun rises.”

        meaning, immobile, never changing…

        means, were it not for the sun rising, it would not be there, for a thing can only be known in contrast to its opposites. Qatadah and As-Suddi said, “The sun is a guide which follows the shade until the shade disappears.”

        This refers to the shade.

        meaning slowly. As-Suddi said, “A gentle, concealed, withdrawal until there is no shade left on earth except under a roof or a tree, and the sun is shining on whatever is above it.”

        Ayyub bin Musa said: “Little by little.” (Ibid., pp. 178-179)

        Furthermore, Ibn Kathir likens the heavens to a dome surface above the earth. Commenting on S. 21:32, Kathir states:

        means, covering the earth like a dome above it. This is like the Ayah,
        [51:47]

        [91:5]

        The building and making described here refers to the raising of the dome, as when the Messenger of Allah said,

        i.e., five pillars, which can only refer to a tent as familiar among Arabs.
        (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Volume 6, p. 443)

        The following Quranic verse also points to the sky as an actual physical dome covering the earth:

        Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man. S. 22:65
        Ibn Kathir comments:

        If He willed, He could give the sky permission to fall on the earth, and whoever is in it would killed, but by His kindness, mercy, power, He withholds the heaven from falling on earth, except by His leave…” (Ibid., p. 611; bold emphasis ours)

        Two conclusions can be drawn from these statements. First, the thing is solid, otherwise it couldn’t kill anyone when falling down, or, if it was not material, it couldn’t fall in the first place. Furthermore, the only way for the heavens to cover the earth like a dome and for Allah to prevent them from crashing upon the earth is if in fact the earth is flat!

        Now someone might argue that the Quran is using phenomenological language here, ordinary speech that is not meant to convey scientific fact. For instance, even today we find meteorologists using the phrases “sunrise” and “sunset” without anyone finding fault with it. Therefore, the Quran is speaking from the earth’s vantage-point, that from our perspective on earth the sun seems to be rising and setting.

        The only problem with this claim is that it completely ignores the preceding commentaries that posit a stationary earth with the sun, moon and stars all orbiting around it. Hence, from the early Islamic perspective neither Muhammad nor his companions were understood to be using phenomenological language. Rather, they were seen by those closest to them to be speaking quite literally.

        In light of all this, we would like to ask the following questions. Seeing that both Ibn Kathir and Tabari cite Islamic traditions from Muhammad and others such as Ibn `Abbas in relation to the orbit of the sun, moon and stars how can one possibly accept Muhammad as a prophet in light of his comments that are brimming with scientific errors? Does the sun and moon travel together on a similar course? Was the moon actually a sun before God stripped it of its luminosity? Does the moon have light of its own? Is there really an ocean in space where the sun, moon and stars travel within? Why is there no mentioning the fact that the earth is actually orbiting around the sun? Why does Ibn Kathir claim that the earth is not traveling at all but is rather stationary? All these factors make it hard for any thinking individual to take Naik’s claim that the Quran is a scientific miracle or that Muhammad was actually God’s prophet seriously.

        The following is from Qisas al-Anbiya-Tales of the Prophets:

        “Wahb said: Then God created the sun and the moon. The sun, He created from the light of the Throne, and the moon He created from the light of His veil.
        Kaab used to say that on the Day of Resurrection the sun and the moon will be led like bulls and hurled into Hell. When Ibn Abbas heard this, he grew angry and said, ‘Kaab has lied. God praised the sun and the moon, saying, He likewise compelleth the sun and the moon, which diligently perform their courses, to serve you (14:33). How then can they be cast into Hell?’

        Wahb ibn Munabbih said: God entrusted the sun and the moon to angels who send them out for a while and draw them back for a while, as He hath said: God causeth the night to succeed the day, and he causeth the day to succeed the night (22:61). Therefor, what is subtracted from one period is added to the other.

        The people of the Torah say that God began to create on a Sunday and finished on a Saturday, whereupon He sat on the Throne; therefore, they have adopted that day as a holiday.

        Ibn Abbas said: The beginning was on a Saturday and the end on Friday. God rested on Friday, so for that reason we have made it a holiday.

        The Prophet said that Friday is the mistress of the day of the week and is greater in God’s view than Id al-Fitra and Yawm al-Adha. Friday has five significances: on that day Adam was created, the spirit was breathed into him, he was married on that day, and on that day He took him unto Himself. Also on that day is a time during which God’s servants ask their Lord for nothing He does not grant (a variant report adds: …so long as it is not a thing forbidden).

        And on that day will Doomsday commence.” (Ibid., pp. 15-16)

        This story also confirms that the moon has its own light. In fact, this tradition presumes a young earth along with the fact that the sun and moon were created only after the earth and its vegetation. (Cf., pp. 8-15) Compare this with the following Islamic traditions:

        Sahih Muslim, Chapter MCLV, The beginning of creation and the creation of Adam, Hadith No. 6707:

        “Abu Huraira reported that Allah’s Messenger took hold of my hands and said: Allah the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam after ‘Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, ie. Between afternoon and night.”

        Muhammad states that vegetation preceded the formation of light, i.e. the sun. It must be emphasized that Sahih Muslim is considered the second most reliable source of hadith collections. Since you barking stone kissers are all Sunni Muslims this means you can’t simply throw this source under the bus, much like your god threw your profit under the bus by allowing a Jewess to poison and murder that filthy monster, seeing it is considered the second most reliable collection of traditions.

        Liked by 2 people

      • And just in case you stone lickers want to hide behind Sauda’s “fat ass” and throw Sahih Muslim into the garbage can where your profit and his book, belong here’s a slew of Muslim stone smoochers that believed that this tradition was actually sound:

        64. Ibn Taimiyyah, Majmu’ Fatawa (37 vols., ed. Abd al-Rahmân b. Qasim & his son Muhammad, Riyad, 1398), 18:18f. Ibn Taimiyyah mentions that Imâm Muslim’s authentication of this hadîth is supported by Abû Bakr al-Anbari & Ibn al- Jauzi, whereas al-Baihaqi supports those who disparaged it. Al-Albani says that it was Ibn al-Madini who criticised it, whereas Ibn Ma’in did not (the latter was known to be very strict, both of them were shaikhs of al-Bukhârî). He further says that the hadîth is Sahih, and does not contradict the Qur’ân, contrary to the probable view of the scholars who criticised the hadîth, since what is mentioned in the Qur’ân is the creation of the heavens and the earth in six days, each of which may be like a thousand years, whereas the hadîth refers to the creation of the earth only, in days which are shorter than those referred to in the Qur’ân (Silsilah al-A hadîth as-Sahihah, no. 1833). (see Islamic Awareness’ An Introduction To The Science Of Hadith
        Appendix & Endnotes )

        Hence, we find Muslims disputing amongst themselves over which hadiths are sound and which are not. Yet, the fact remains that Sahih Muslim is not the only Islamic source indicating that both Muhammad and his Companions believed in a young earth and that the sun was created after vegetation. Historians such as at-Tabari also record this fact. The following traditions are taken entirely from The History of al-Tabari, Volume 1- General Introduction and from the Creation to the Flood (trans. Franz Rosenthal, State University of New York Press, Albany 1989), pp. 187-193:

        “We have stated before that time is but hours of night and day and that the hours are but traversal by the sun and the moon of the degrees of the sphere. Now then, this being so, there is (also) a sound tradition from the Messenger of God told us by Hannad b. al-Sari, who also said that he read all of the hadith (to Abu Bakr)- Abu Bakr b. ‘Ayyash- Abu Sa’d al-Baqqal- ‘Ikrimah- Ibn Abbas: The Jews came to the Prophet and asked him about the creation of the heavens and the earth. He said: God created the earth on Sunday and Monday. He created the mountains and the uses they possess on Tuesday. On Wednesday, He created trees, water, cities and the cultivated barren land. These are four (days). He continued (citing the Qur’an): ‘Say: Do you really not believe in the One Who created the earth in two days, and set up others like Him? That is the Lord of the worlds. He made it firmly anchored (mountains) above it and blessed it and decreed that it contain the amount of food it provides, (all) in four days, equally for those asking’- for those who ask. On Thursday, He created heaven. On Friday, He created the stars, the sun, the moon, and the angels, until three hours remained. In the first of these three hours He created the terms (of human life), who would live and who would die. In the second, He cast harm upon everything that is useful for mankind. And in the third, (He created) Adam and had him dwell in Paradise. He commanded Iblis to prostrate himself before Adam, and He drove Adam out of Paradise at the end of the hour. When the Jews asked: What then, Muhammad? He said: ‘Then He sat straight upon the Throne.’ The Jews said: You are right, if you had finished, they said, with: Then He rested. Whereupon the Prophet got very angry, and it was revealed: ‘We have created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and fatigue did not touch Us. Thus be patient with what you say.'”

        According to this tradition from Ibn Abbas, Muhammad believed the earth and everything within it was created on the first four days whereas the heavens and the constellations were created afterwards on Thursday and Friday. Hence, Muhammad believed that vegetation was created nearly two days before the sun was even formed.

        “According to al-Muthanna- al-Hajjaj- Hammad- ‘Ata’ b. al-Sa’ib- ‘Ikrimah: The Jews asked the Prophet: What about Sunday? The Messenger of God replied: On it, God created the earth and spread it out. They asked about Monday, and he replied: On it, He created Adam. They asked about Tuesday, and he replied: On it, He created the mountains, water, and so on. They asked about Wednesday, and he replied: Food. They asked about Thursday, and he replied: He created the heavens. They asked about Friday, and he replied: God created night and day. Then, when they asked about Saturday and mentioned God’s rest(ing on it), he exclaimed: God be praised! God then revealed: ‘We have created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and fatigue did not touch Us.'”

        Once again we have “food”, i.e. vegetation, appearing on Wednesday with the sun being created on Friday.

        Al-Tabari then comments:

        “The two reports transmitted by us from the Messenger of God have made it clear that the sun and the moon were created after God had created many things of His creation. That is because the hadith of Ibn Abbas on the authority of the Messenger of God indicates that God created the sun and the moon on Friday. If this is so, earth and heaven and what was in them, except the angels and Adam, had been created before God created the sun and the moon. All this (thus) existed while there was no light and no day, since night and day are but nouns designating hours known through the traversal by the sun and the moon of the course of the sphere. Now, if it is correct that the earth and the heaven and what was between them, except what we have mentioned, were in existence when there was no sun and no moon, the conclusion is that all existed when there was no night or day. The same (conclusion results from) the following hadith of Abu Hurayrah reported on the authority of the Messenger of God: God created light on Wednesday – meaning by ‘light’ the sun, if God wills.”

        Tabari is honest enough to state that both the Quran and Muhammad’s interpretation of it clearly place the sun after the earth and its nourishment had already been made.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Now the fatty is gonna come back and say:
        Let me burryyyyyy your prooofiiiiiit and muzzle you Muhammadan.
        And then he’ll copy paste garbage that gets refuted over and over again.

        Liked by 2 people

      • O boy!!! Fatty is maaaaad!

        Another idiotic copy paste from the braindead crosstian. And as alwas he can’t defend the pornnin his book a la emmanuelle so what does he do then: call the glorious Qur’an a pornbook. Lool hahahhaa. Ooo you wish it was true fatass.

        Now fatty do you really think I am impressed by the garbage you copy pasted?? Throwing out as many citations out there in the hopes that you come over as victorious.
        Stop quoting weak sources from Tabari dumbass!
        For example Ikrimah was considered unreliable by many scholars like Imam Malik.
        The “sahih hadith” from Muslim is in fact NOT sahih!

        Ibn Kathīr, in his commentary of the Qur’ān writes:

        “This hadīth is one of the unusual hadīth found in Sahīh Muslim. `Alī al-Madīnī, al-Bukhārī, and a number of other leading scholars of hadīth have criticized it, saying that it is the statement of Ka`b and that Abū Hurayrah merely heard it from Ka`b al-Ahbar and some narrators merely got confused and attributed it to the Prophet (peace be upon him). This has been thoroughly researched by al-Bayhaqī.”

        Ibn Taymiyah comments:

        “It is a defective hadīth. It has been declared defective by more than a few scholars.” [Majmū` al-Fatāwā (17/236)]

        Moreover, regarding the text itself, al-Qurtubī points out in his commentary on Sahīh Muslim that the text does not convey its meaning with sufficient coherence. He writes in al-Mufhim:

        “This hadīth has been related in other sources besides Sahīh Muslim with various conflicting narrations. In some of them the Earth is created on Sunday and Monday while the mountains are created on Tuesday and the trees, rivers, and inhabitants are created on Wednesday, and the Sun, Moon, stars, and angels created on Thursday, and Adam on Friday. These are single-narrator hadīth that conflict with one another and do not provide any practical instruction. We must not rely upon them in determining the order of appearance of created things during those days.’

        STOP citing weak sources dumbass!!!

        Secondly fatty, why o why can’t you defend your prequel of fifty shades of gray???? The verse in Matthew clearly indicates a flat earth. Yet you gave NOTHING as refutation. The same methodology you used was applied to several verses in your pornbook and yet you don’t give a refutation. Poor poor fatty. It’s okey, it’s okey. Accept the bitchslapping you keep receiving whilr foaming at the mouth and knowing there is NOTHING you can do about it. Nothing.

        What a pathetic failure!

        Liked by 3 people

      • i’m going to let your taghut Bassam Zawadi help me to bury your profit in Ikrimah’s “fat ass”. Enjoy!

        The “Hanafi Stance” Regarding the Narrator Ikrimah – The Slave of Ibn Abbas
        Refuting Modernist “Hanafis”

        The “Hanafi Stance” Regarding the Narrator Ikrimah – The Slave of Ibn Abbas By Bassam Zawadi

        We have already seen the stance of the Hanafi madhab on the issue of apostates over here. If one were to check the references, he would observe that the Hanafis accepted the authenticity of the hadeeth: “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.”

        Only in recent times do we see modernists speaking falsely in the name of the Hanafi madhab trying to attribute the rejection of this hadeeth to the madhab. They base their argument by stating that one of the narrators in the hadeeth is Ikrimah and that he’s supposedly unreliable according to Hanafi principles of hadeeth verification.

        Salih bin Ali al-‘Umayrini addresses these arguments surrounding Ikrimah.1 We will quickly summarize how Salih addresses these arguments…

        Argument: Ali bin Abdullah bin Abbass Accused Ikrimah of Lying Answer: The isnad for this contains Yunus bin Abi Ziyad and he’s a weak and unreliable narrator.

        Argument: Ibn Sireen Accused Ikrimah of Being a Liar Answer: The isnad for this contains as-Sult bin Dinar and he’s a weak and unreliable narrator. There’s also an authentic isnad in Ibn Sa’d’s Kitabul Tabaqat demonstrating that Ibn Sireen used to know Ibn Abbas’ narrations from Ikrimah. If he thought Ikrimah was a liar, he wouldn’t have done that.

        Argument: Ibn Abi Dhi’b Said That Ikrimah is Not Trustworthy

        Answer: We can’t be sure what Ibn Abi Dhi’b actually said, because there is another narration where he says “Ikrimah, the slave of Ibn Abbas is trustworthy”. Imam al-Mizzi mentioned the disparity and couldn’t reach a conclusion as to what Ibn Abi Dhi’bs’ stance truly was. He concluded by saying “Allah knows best”. Imam adh-Dhahabi said that he thinks that the narration which says that Ikrimah is not trustworthy is more likely the view of Ibn Abi Dhi’b, however Imam adh-Dhahabi did not say this with confidence,2 nor did he provide any evidence demonstrating why this is the case. In summary, we can’t be confident as to what Ibn Abi Dhi’bs’ stance truly was.

        Argument: Ibn Umar Warned Nafi’ Not to Lie About Him Just as Ikrimah Did With Ibn Abbas

        Answer: This has come to us through two chains of transmission. The first one contains Ayyub bin Yazeed, who is majhool (unknown). The second one contains Yahya al-Bukka’ & Abdullah ‘Isa al-Khazzar who are both unreliable.

        Argument: Ibn al-Salah, says that Bukhari has reported from narrators who were not trusted by others and he gave the example of Ikrimah.

        Answer: This is extremely misleading. In no way is Ibn Salah insinuating that Ikrimah is weak, rather he was pointing out that Imams such as Muslim and Bukhari included narrators despite being criticized by others before. This is because in order for a valid criticism of the narrator to be there, the criticism must be highlighted clearly in detail and authentically. Mere criticism not backed up by evidence has no negative effect on the status of the narrator. On the contrary, Ibn al-Salah was actually speaking positively of Ikrimah by insinuating that the criticisms against him weren’t valid.

        Argument: Imam Muslim Would Only Narrate from Ikrimah if There Was a Corroborating Chain Answer: This in no way entails that Imam Muslim viewed Ikrimah to be weak. Muslim may have very well been cautious about Ikrimah because he wasn’t sure of Ikrimah’s status. In fact, Muslim narrated from people who are less in rank that Ikrimah such as Suwayd bin Sa’eed.

        Argument: Imam Malik only narrated one tradition from Ikrimah and Imam Malik disliked Ikrimah.

        Answer: Imam Malik disliking Ikrimah was likely due to his (Kharijite) views as highlighted by Ibn Abi Hatim. This has no bearing on whether Imam Malik found him reliable to narrate from. In fact, Ibn Abdul Barr – the famous Maliki jurist – argued that Imam Malik relied on the tradition from Ikrimah in his book on Hajj instead of the narration coming from ‘Ata, despite ‘Ata being from one of the great Taabi’is. This demonstrates that Imam Malik found Ikrimah to be reliable. Some have mentioned that Ikrimah was a Kharijite and so this should raise concerns, however as Abdulmajeed al-Turkmani shows3 there are four opinions in the Hanafi madhab regarding the acceptance of ahaadeeth from innovators:

        1) Their narrations are not accepted at all with no conditions attached.

        2) If his innovation reaches to the level of kufr, his narrations won’t be accepted.

        3) Even if he’s an extreme innovator such as a Raafidi or anthropomorphist, his narrations will still be accepted if his belief doesn’t allow him to lie in order to promote his religion (and this applies to kharijites).

        4) If his innovation reaches the level of kufr such that he denies something mutawatir from the religion, then he’s to be rejected. Also, his narrations which specifically promote the beliefs of his sect are to be rejected.

        As we could see, Ikrimah’s Kharijite affiliations according to opinions 2-4 don’t have any negative implications on him as a narrator. In fact, we see that the dominant and majority Hanafi opinion on this matter is that Ikrimah’s Kharijism can’t be used as a criticism against his ability to narrate reliably. Also, we must remember that the early Hanafis accepted this hadeeth of Ikrimah. We have no report of any of the early Hanafis rejecting this hadeeth of the apostates reported by him. This also includes Hanafis who adopted opinion no. 1 above, such as the likes of al-Bazdawi, Sarakhsi, etc. None of them rejected this hadith narrated by Ikrimah.

        Conclusion

        As we have just seen, the criticisms against Ikrimah are either falsely attributed to those who claimed to have said them, or are irrelevant to his status as a reliable narrator. There maybe other criticisms, however none which could be backed up with reliable evidence to the extent that it would deem Ikrimah to be an unreliable narrator. Go here and see all the praise he has received from the scholars of Jarh wa-Ta’deel. To deem Ikrimah unreliable would entail discarding thousands of narrators accepted as reliable if we were to be consistent.

        1 Salih bin Ali al-‘Umayrini, ar-Ridda Bayna al-Hadd wal-Hurriyah, (Dar at-Tadmurriyah, Riyadh, 1st edition, 2013), pp.180-195. Also, see Faruq Bo’izza, Aqwaal ‘Ikrimah Mawlah Ibn ‘Abbas fi at-Tafseer, pp. 14-27, and the article at-Tahqeeq wal-Insaaf li-‘Ikrimah Mawlah Ibn Abbass by the Salaf Center for Studies and Research for a defense of ‘Ikrimah from the allegations lodged against him.

        2 His “Allah knows best” remark alludes to that.

        3 Abdulmajeed al-Turkmani, Diraasaat fi-Usool al-Hadeeth ‘ala Manhaj al-Hanafiyyah, (Maktabat as- Sa’aada, Karachi, 1st edition, 2009), pp. 163-173

        DAMN, YOU JUST GOT BURIED BY YOUR OWN IDOL ZAWADI! Now that is what I call an epic beat down!

        Like I said, any time you open your filthy pagan mouth I will humiliate your filthy profit.

        Liked by 1 person

      • As I predicted, I knew a filthy stone kissing pagan like you would throw Muslim under the bus much like your god threw your vile profit under the bus by allowing a Jewess to murder him via poison. Therefore, enjoy this since I am about to bury you in your profit’s “fat ass.”

        The fact is a pagan stone smoocher like you must contend with the fact that the hadith on the days of creation was included within a work that many Muslims deem to be the second most authentic collection of narrations ever compiled. In fact, some of the Islamic scholars claim that in some aspects Sahih Muslim is actually superior to al-Bukhari’s collection!

        “… Although Sahih al-Bukhari is the most reliable collection of Ahadith, however, Sahih Muslim has certain aspects of superiority. Imam Muslim adhered strictly to most of the principles of the Science of Hadith which were somehow at some places ignored by his teacher Imam Bukhari. Imam Muslim accepted for his collection only such Ahadith which had been transmitted with an unbroken chain of reliable narrators, free from all defects and were in perfect harmony with the narrations of other narrators. He has recorded only those ahadith which were transmitted at least by two different transmitters from two different Companions. Imam Bukhari has sometimes used the Kunyah (surname) of the narrators and sometimes their names. Imam Muslim avoided this confusion. Imam Muslim is also particular in pointing out the slightest difference in the text of the narrations. Imam Bukhari has fragmented most of the Ahadith and presented the portions under different chapters, while Imam Muslim presented them as a whole narration. So, the works of both Imams provide different approaches for the scholars and readers of Ahadith.” (The Translation of the Meanings of Summarized Sahih Muslim, Publisher’s Note, Volume 1, p. ii)

        And:

        “Imam Muslim compiled many books and treatises on Hadith, the most important of his works is the compilation of the Hadith collection Al-Jami‘ As-Sahih, which is famous by the name of Sahih Muslim. Some scholars of Hadith opine that in some respects IT IS THE BEST AND MOST AUTHENTIC COLLECTION of Ahadith. Imam Muslim laboriously collected 300,000 Ahadith, but after critical study, he selected only 4,000 Ahadith for this collection…

        “Many students learned the Science of Hadith from Imam Muslim. Those who became famous and occupied a prominent position are: Abu Hatim Razi, Musa bin Harun, Ahmad bin Salamah, Abu ‘Isa Tirmidhi, Abu Bakr bin Khuzaimah, Abu ‘Awanah and Hafiz Dhahbi.” (Ibid., p. v; capital emphasis ours)

        This means that these traditions thoroughly met Imam Muslim’s stringent criteria of authenticity, which also indicates that this renowned hadith scholar was fully convinced that these were actual statements uttered by Muhammad. Therefore, a pagan like you is going to have to do a lot more than to simply brush aside these traditions on the grounds that it is a weak narration since the fact still remains that according to the very strict criteria employed by Imam Muslim they are genuine sayings of the historical Muhammad (that is, as far as Islamic historiography and hadith criticism are concerned).

        Liked by 1 person

      • I’m not done burying you in your profit’s “fat ass”:

        The following quotation is taken from the Muslim website Islamic Awareness (IA):

        Imam Muslim said: “I have not included in my present book any thing BUT WITH PROOF [regarding authenticity], and I have not left out anything but with proof.” He also said: I did not include everything that I judge authentic/Sahih, I ONLY INCLUDED WHAT RECEIVED A UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT, i.e., WHAT FULFILLED ALL THE CRITERIA OF AUTHENTICITY AGREED UPON [by the scholars].

        And Muslim has presented [his collection] TO THE SCHOLARS OF HIS TIME, like Imam Abu Zar`ah, AND RETAINED WHAT WAS VOID OF DEFECT, and left out what had some defect. (Al-Imam Muhyee ad-Din Abi Zakariyya Yahya bin Sharaf al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim Bi Sharh al-Imam al-Nawawi, Volume I, [Dar al-Khair, 1994 (1414 A.H.)], Volume I, p. 1) (Khalid al-Khazraji, Muhammad Ghoniem & M S M Saifullah, On The Nature Of Hadith Collections Of Imam Al-Bukhari & Muslim; capital emphasis ours)

        This proves that this particular tradition thoroughly met Imam Muslim’s stringent criteria of authenticity, which also indicates that this renowned hadith scholar was fully convinced that this was an actual narration of Muhammad. Therefore, Williams is going to have to do a lot more than simply toss this report aside as someone’s mistaken view since according to the very strict criteria employed by Imam Muslim this is a genuine saying of the historical Muhammad (that is, as far as Islamic historiography and hadith criticism are concerned).

        Nor was Imam Muslm the only hadith scholar that collected this narration. For instance, Ibn Kathir appealed to this same report in his explanation on Q. 7:54:

        The Universe was created in Six Days

        Allah states that He created the universe, the heavens and earth and all that is in, on and between them in six days, as He has stated in several Ayat in the Qur’an. These six days are: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. On Friday, the entire creation was assembled and on that day, Adam was created. There is a difference of opinion whether these days were the same as our standard days as suddenly comes to the mind, or each day constitutes one thousand years, as reported from Mujahid, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, and from Ibn `Abbas according to Ad-Dahhak’s narration from him. As for Saturday, no creation took place in it since it is the seventh day of (of the week). The word ‘As-Sabt’ means stoppage, or break. Imam Ahmad recorded Abu Huraryah saying: Allah’s Messenger told me…

        ((Allah created the dust on Saturday, and He created the mountains on Sunday, and He created the trees on Monday, and He created the unpleasant things on Tuesday and He created the light on Wednesday and He spread the creatures through out it on Thursday and He created Adam after ‘Asr on between ‘Asr and the night.)) (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged) (Surat Al-A’raf to the end of Sura Yunus), First Edition: May 200, Volume 4, pp. 76-77)

        Imam Ahmad is Ahmad ibn Hanbal, a Muslim scholar and hadith compiler who has a school of Islamic jurisprudence named in his honor. Ibn Kathir was obviously referring to his collection of hadiths known as Musnad Ahmad, as even the translators themselves point out:

        Ahmad 2:327 and Muslim no. 2149. (Ibid., fn. 2, p. 77)

        Thus, we have at least two renowned hadith scholars that transmitted this narrative!

        Finally, one of Salafi Islam’s greatest hadith scholars al-Albani chided the Muslims who rejected this hadith on the grounds that it contradicts the Quran:

        Hadith 1833

        “Allah created the soil on Saturday, then he created the mountains on Sunday, then he created the trees on Monday, then he created what is reprehensible on Tuesday, then he created the light on Wednesday, then he made the animals on Thursday, then he created Adam late afternoon (after Asr) of Friday as the last of creation at the last hour of Friday between Asr and night time.” Sahih.

        This hadith does not differ with the Quran as some assume, review al-Mishkat # 5735, and the abridged copy of “The Height” by Al-Zahabi, Hadith # 71. Also, view the lengthy investigation in the book on page 664. Its summary is that the details in the hadith are different than the details in the Quran, and its days are different. In this case it is mandatory for scholars “to hug one another in lieu of beating each other.” (Shaikh al-Albani, The Complete Collection of the Sahih Hadith Series, Volume 4 (of 7 volumes))

        The last sentence is an exhortation from Al-Albani who was frustrated that some from within the Islamic camp were questioning the tension between the Quranic account of creation and this particular hadith. Albani was urging Muslim scholars to work together, and not against each other, concerning this tension in order to find a way of reconciling these conflicting statements.

        In light of the foregoing, a filthy stone kissing pagan like you has no choice as a Sunni Muslim but to view this narration as an authentic saying of his prophet.

        Boy did you just help me destroy your profit for all to see! So keep barking like the mad dog you are and I’ll keep muzzling your profit and his dog… err I mean god. 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      • Now I will let Hamza Yusuf stuff you and your profit in Sauda’s very obese “fat ass,” since he had you in mind when discussing clowns like you dismissing hadiths because they are supposedly “weak”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COrxzfd5d2k

        The fact is your whole religion and god are weak!

        Again thank you for helping me bury your profit further within Allah’s flat earth, in the pits of hell itself! Much appreciated.

        Like

      • Buahahahhaa poor fatty!!!
        So you give quotes of Muslim saying that he uses everything with proof. That’s great except aaaaaam: he is NOT infallible.
        All you do is basically ignore the reports saying that some of the very few hadiths are unreliable. The hadith contained a narrator that was deemed weak by many including ibn Kathir.
        So you have proven nothing. Saying some people believed Muslim was more reliable than Bukhari is another appeal to authority. Never mind the fact that most agree it’s the opposite.

        Thanks for provin you’re an idiot!

        Liked by 2 people

      • And then you give me a video of Hamza but dumbass listen to what he says in the beginning: sahih Muslim is like 97%. Of the thousands of hadiths in Muslim there is then 3% that will not be reliable and even that is a very high percentage (normally there are far fewer hadiths that are unrelialbe).
        Buahaha what a dumbass you are. Good job refuting urself fatty.
        O and since we are talking about unreliability, lets talk about your pornbook.
        Is the luke birth narrative reliable. Ehrman keeps on bitchslapping you idiots with it. Lol! Most of CHRISTIAN scholar reject it as a historical event.
        Ai ai ai. Damn fatty, your pornbook is the biggest joke ever.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Lol, I’m loving this! 🤣

        Liked by 1 person

      • And fatty after tens of comments has YET to refute the flat earth his pornbook promotes. Fatty why did satan take your pussy god to a high mountain and “see the kingdoms of the earth”?
        Why does your own methodology bitchslap several verses in your pornbook regarding the spreading out of the earth?

        Poor fatty.
        Remember the triple F folks: fat, filthy, fraud.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Shamy don’t be silly…. you know deep within yourself that the Quran is addressing mankind as the earth appears to be in the eye of the beholder. Simple 😊

      Liked by 2 people

    • You just prove to me that your mother is miss piggy. Because a lady will not have a son using that kind of language. Keep up the nasty name calling and language. Prove to me how much of a pig education your mother gave you. Your nasty language might upgrade her from miss piggy to queen piggy lol. Come on that I’m right, make my day. 😊. Your language will prove if your mother was a lady or a pig. Come on upgrade her status to Queen piggy.

      Like

      • LOL, another Christian who can’t handle being put in their place! Come on Miss Piggy, why don’t you try to teach me (you’re a muppet, get it 😉 )? Look, you can teach men here. This blog isn’t run by followers of Saul of Tarsus. 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      • So many childish comments and yet none of them contain a grain of respons/refutation to the objections put forth againsy her pornbook. Yep the little girl is a prime example of a cheerleader.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. Highlighting the Quran’s geocentric worldview

    Liked by 1 person

  11. LOL, hey guys, Sammy is mad again! Remember when someone said you can disagree without launching personal attacks? Hmm, and then what does Shamu do? Launch personal attacks!

    Sammy, I know you don’t like being put on the spot which is why you go on your rapid-fire rants, and then end with another idiotic “challenge”. I have already told you many time, King Kong. Anything you want to say, you can say it here. I don’t do debates, and I certainly would not waste time debating a loser such as yourself.

    How are those rabbit turds? 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  12. “And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.”

    This speaks against a flat earth theory, not for it. There is some kind of miracle going on here which, if the earth was flat, would not be necessary.

    Like

  13. “in a moment of time” rules out a flat earth theory.

    Like

  14. Satan would have no control over the time it would take to see the kingdoms of the earth if Jesus could see them from the top of the mountain.

    Like

    • You’re pathetic! The kingdoms could have been shown from the ground too. They didn’t need to go to a “very high mountain”. Give it up. Your pathetic theories are based on assumptions and nothing else.

      Like

  15. Now you are grasping at straws to defend your nonsense.

    Like

  16. Just looking at the earth itself is not looking at the kingdoms of the earth. So Jesus had to see something that the devil showed him by a miracle.

    You have no proof otherwise.

    Like

  17. Oh veh, I dont care what Matthew had in mind. The text counts.

    Like

  18. Oh veh, the text shows that the devil was showing the kingdoms of the world, not the whole world.

    Oh veh Faiz fails again.

    Like

  19. “January 15, 2019 • 2:39 am
    You’re pathetic! The kingdoms could have been shown from the ground too. They didn’t need to go to a “very high mountain”.”

    Oh veh, I guess that’s why screens are laid flat on the floor in cinemas.

    Faiz brilliant logic again.

    Like

    • 😂🤣😂 is this guy for real? Really, is this the best you morons can offer?

      Like

    • Erasmus you have got to be kidding me!!! This is the most silly respons I have seen in a looonh time. Woow, just woow!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Erasmus appealed to Luke 4:5 and the phrase “in a moment of time” (KJV) or “in an instant” (NIV). And this seems to be excuse that other apologists use as well. To answer the problem with Matthew, they appeal to Luke, but there are a few problems with this argument.

      1. First, it is widely believed that Luke was a Gentile, most likely a Greek physician.

      2. Luke’s version of Jesus’ temptation differs from Matthew by the addition of the phrase “in an instant” but also in the latter’s choice of the word for “world”. Whereas Matthew used the word “kosmos”, Luke used the word “oikoumenē”. While this word can mean the whole world as well, it is interesting that it was often used by Greek writers to refer to the land inhabited by the Greeks or to the Roman Empire. See Thayer’s Lexicon: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3625&t=KJV. Strong’s Definitions also notes that it was usually used to refer to the Roman Empire by Greek writers:

      “οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men’-ay; feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication, of G1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world.”

      So did Luke really mean the whole world or just the Roman Empire? It is an intriguing possibility that he could have meant the latter. Why does this matter? Since he was an educated Greek physician, he would probably not have believed in a flat earth to begin with. This would explain his choice of words. In fact, Luke used “oikoumenē” three times in the gospel (2:1, 4:5, 21:26), whereas Matthew used it only once (24:14). In contrast, Luke used “kosmos” three times (9:25, 11:50, 12:30), whereas Matthew used it 9 times. Also, Luke is considered to also be the author of Acts, and there he used “oikoumenē” 5 times, but “kosmos” is used 0 times.

      3. Given Luke’s education, it also explains his addition of the phrase “in an instant”. He still has the devil take Jesus to a high mountain, but the use of the phrase “in an instant” is Luke’s own addition. It is unanimously accepted that Luke wrote after Matthew, so either Luke used Matthew as a source or they were both relying on a similar third-party (perhaps an oral tradition). Either way, Matthew never used the phrase “in an instant”, so appealing to Luke changes nothing. Matthew’s flat earth remains. Perhaps Luke was trying correct the blunder, especially given his audience which was supposed to be an educated Gentile class. We see this many times when comparing the Synoptic gospels. For example, Luke mysteriously omitted the story of the Gentile woman begging Jesus to help her daughter. Why would he do that? Given his audience, a possible motive could have been to not offend them with such a story.

      Liked by 1 person

  20. Seems both sides failed in the “experiment” as both sides are spewing sinful anger and name calling and abuse.

    Amazing how almost nobody just argues their case in a calm and reasonable way – we can be passionate without insults. I have tried sincerely to abide by that principle.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Kenny, you are a hypocrite. When given the chance, you do not hesitate to call your opponents names or insult Islam or Muslim sensitivities. So stop acting like the typical “I am holier than thou” Christian.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I bet you wont say to shamoun that he needs to stop. Cus you know what he’ll do to you. He’ll start insulting you too. Proves you are a hypocrite and a coward for not manning up to him and adressing to him what you think is right. You just say it in a way that is not directly targetted at him cus you know he would turn on you in the blink of an eye. That’s the weak “brotherhood” you faith offers where those that are considered to be the “best” by the christians are the ones with the loudest, venomous mouths that will, when confronted even with nice messages saying could you please tone it down, turn on them and insult them viciously.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Both of you or all of you on both sides, who throw out insults and name calling need to stop.

        Sam, but we cannot expect Muslims to behave properly, because they don’t have the gospel power nor the Holy Spirit within them to act properly.

        But you, Sam, you claim to be a Christian and regenerated and have the Holy Spirit, and yet you do this kind of sinful style all the time here and other places. Wow, it is amazing. Have you learned nothing in sanctification and holiness in your life and current situation, and anything from all the NT passages that speak of being patient and respectful, even to unbelievers and that God’s word to us says “don’t curse them when the curse you” – ? (I Peter 3:8-9 and 15-17 and 2 Timothy 2:24-26- you are definitely not a prophet, nor an apostle, so don’t give me any of that garbage justification that you can use harsh language like Jesus did vs. the Pharisees, or Paul vs. Elymas in Acts 13, etc. That is a joke of exegesis and theology. We can still rebuke at times, but not “baptized” in all the sin and cursing and name calling you do.

        Sam, you really need to repent of all the insults and name calling, etc. It would do better to cut out all the insulting language and just argue with texts, and quotes, and reason. Also, make your points shorter, cut out all the capitals (feels like yelling and screaming in internet blog parlance etiquette) It does not matter if Faiz or Atlas curse or show that their religion does not have the power of the Holy Spirit to produce character within the person. They, being unregenerate, don’t have any spiritual power, and they are ignorant of the truth. I am surprised though, that you, who claim to be a believer in Christ, continue to use all your insults and name calling and sinful anger. And you will probably turn on me again (that’s ok), and quote something from the Gospels or narratives, and claim you are a prophet or apostle and you can insult these unbelievers all you want. Brother, historical narrative of those rebukes are true, but you have no authority to claim them for yourself. Especially when the emphasis of NT commands to us are the exact opposite.

        The commands to us on how to behave towards unbelievers are passages like these: (even though “brotherly” means to each other in the church, the application is clear to both kinds of people, because of the context of suffering under persecution and what 1 Peter 3:15-17 and other passages say.

        8 To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; 9 not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. ”
        I Peter 3:8-9

        Have you ever even read that passage and thought about it? (and the context of harmonious marriages, 1 Peter 3:1-7, etc. & how it points back to Jesus’ example in 2:19-24 – look at verse 2:19 – 20

        “For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. ”

        and

        but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
        I Peter 3:15-17

        Sam, have you ever even meditated on those passages that it is better to be slandered and let that go and suffer for doing what is right?

        If you are regenerate, repent of your whole style and sinful anger, get rid of the over the top insults and name calling, and get back to character, holiness, love, patience, and do apologetics properly – make your arguments based on Scripture, texts, reason, logic, etc. and get rid of the snark. It is a terrible witness and the Muslims are laughing at your style. No one is reading your long posts and the guy that put up the saxophone video is exactly right. This is a joke.

        24 The Lord’s bond-servant ,must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

        2 Timothy 2:24-26

        Sam, have you ever even read those passages and sought to apply them to your behavior with Muslims?

        Repent, and do proper apologetics and evangelism.

        You can still be passionate and defend the gospel and the truth, without all the bravado and insults and sinful cursing and sinful anger.

        You are a bad witness for Christ and you give the enemies of the gospel ammunition and justification for not listening to you.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Ah, finally! Ken speaks up!

        OK Ken. Let’s give this another shot. You want a civilized discussion? Let’s try it. How do you answer the argument I have raised against Matthew 4:8? We already know that Shamoun will keep ranting and raving. So let’s ignore him and get down to business.

        Liked by 2 people

  21. This post is the worst. When two hate-preachers go to war.

    Liked by 4 people

  22. Both the Bible and Quran share a flat-earth geocentric worldview. And this is perfectly ok, what else could it be? Accept the obvious and move on. Fundamentalist assertiveness only gives religion a bad name.

    Like

    • You keep making assertions but don’t provide any substantive argument. I asked you to do that before. Anyone can just link to a random video. Did you even bother to research this topic objectively, or do you just blindly accept some random video because it agrees with your assumptions?

      Liked by 3 people

  23. Hey guys, Sammy is evidently quite obsessed with me! Now he is sending messages through Facebook! Needless to say, I blocked him.

    It’s okay Sammy. Just because you are unable to refute me does not mean you need to turn into some kind of creepy stalker. Yikes!

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Emma is probably Sammy’s ex wife, or his alias account, or heck it might be David Wood dressed up as an ugly woman. Grow up Sammy, the only thing youve proven is that you are an idiot who needs to hit the gym and go on a diet… oh and use some rogaine for goodness sake, you bald f*ck

    Liked by 2 people

  25. Speaking of “vaginas,” let share how your filthy god describes the conception of Jesus in his filthy book of porn. Enjoy!

    It is actually the Qur’an that describes Jesus’ virginal conception and birth in very graphic language:

    And (remember) her who guarded her SEXUAL ORGAN (Arabic- farjahaa): We breathed into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all people. S. 21:91

    And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her SEXUAL ORGAN (Arabic- farjahaa) and We breathed INTO IT of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). S. 66:12

    The word farjahaa, from farj, refers to a person’s private area, to their private parts. Here are some verses which use this word in this connection:

    Prosperous are the believers who in their prayers are humble … and guard their private parts (lifuroojihim). S. 23:1-2,5 Arberry

    Say to the believers, that they cast down their eyes and guard their private parts (furoojahum); that is purer for them. God is aware of the things they work. And say to the believing women, that they cast down their eyes’ and guard their private parts (furoojahunna), and reveal not their adornment save such as is outward; and let them cast their veils over their bosoms, and not reveal their adornment save to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands’ fathers, or their sons, or their husbands’ sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or what their right hands own, or such men as attend them, not having sexual desire, or children who have not yet attained knowledge of women’s private parts; nor let them stamp their feet, so that their hidden ornament may be known. And turn all together to God, O you believers; haply so you will prosper. S. 24:30-31 Arberry

    Men and women who have surrendered, believing men and believing women, obedient men and obedient women, truthful men and truthful women, enduring men and enduring women, humble men and humble women, men and women who give in charity, men who fast and women who fast, men and women who guard their private parts (furoojahum), men and women who remember God oft — for them God has prepared forgiveness and a mighty wage. S. 33:35 Arberry

    and guard their private parts (lifuroojihim). S. 70:29 Arberry

    In the above references which speak of Christ’s conception, this word is used to describe Allah penetrating Mary’s private area by breathing his Spirit into it.

    Mahmoud M. Ayoub contrasts the birth narratives of the Gospel of Luke with that mentioned in the Quran. Capital emphasis is ours:

    “The language of this verse (author- Luke 1:35) is clearly circumspect. It implies no sexual union or divine generation of any kind. Furthermore, while Luke’s description agrees both in form and spirit with the Qur’anic idea of the conception of Christ, the language of the Qur’an IS FAR MORE GRAPHIC AND OPEN TO INTERPRETATION.” (Christian-Muslim Encounters, ed. Yvonne Yazbeck Haddad & Wadi Z. Haddad [University Press of Florida, 1995], p. 67)

    He goes on to say:

    “… Then of Mary He (author-allegedly God) continues: ‘And she who guarded well [lit. fortified] her chastity [lit. GENERATIVE ORGAN], and thus We breathed INTO HER of our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign [or miracle, ‘Aya] for all beings’ (S. 21:90-91) …

    “In the second instance the Qur’an speaks of Mary as a righteous woman who lived in strict chastity and obedience to God: ‘And Mary daughter of ‘Imran who guarded well her GENERATIVE ORGAN farjaha, and thus We breathed INTO HER of our spirit’ (S. 66:12). THE BOLD AND GRAPHIC STATEMENT APPEARS TO HAVE SHOCKED TRADITIONISTS AND COMMENTATORS, so that most of them tried to cover it up with different and FARFETCHED significations or glossed over it with out comment…

    “Ibn Kathir interprets the phrase ‘guarded well her generative organ’ to mean: ‘safeguarded and protected it. Guarding well ihsan signifies chastity and high birth.’ He comments on the phrase, ‘and thus We breathed into it of our spirit’ thus ‘that is, through the angel Gabriel. This is because God sent him to her, and he took for her the form of a man of good stature (S. 19:17). God commanded him to breathe INTO THE BREAST OF HER CHEMISE. HIS BREATH WENT DOWN AND PENETRATED HER GENERATIVE ORGAN, AND THUS CAUSED HER TO CONCEIVE JESUS …’” (Ibid.)

    Finally:

    “Abu Ja’far al-Tusi, the jurist doctor of the Shi’i community, as well as his well known disciple al-Tabarsi, read the words, ‘We breathed INTO IT’ literally. Al-Tusi says: ‘It has been held that Gabriel BREATHED INTO MARY’S GENERATIVE ORGAN then God created Christ in it’ …” (Ibid., p. 68)

    Ibn Kathir provides additional evidence for the very graphic and distasteful nature of the Quranic birth narratives. In his comments on S. 66:12, Ibn Kathir writes:

    meaning who protected and purified her honor, by being chaste and free of immorality,

    meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him TO BLOW into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb THROUGH HER PRIVATE PART; this is how ‘Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,

    meaning His decree and His legislation. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir – Abridged, Volume 10, Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur’an, pp. 75-76; capital emphasis ours)

    Ibn Kathir makes the following comments in reference to S. 19:22-23:

    “Allah, the Exalted, informs about Maryam that when Jibril had spoken to her about what Allah said, she accepted the decree of Allah. Many scholars of the predecessors (Salaf) have mentioned that at this point the angel (who was Jibril) blew into the opening of her garment that she was wearing. Then the breath descended until it entered INTO HER VAGINA and she conceived by the leave of Allah.” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 6, Surat Al-Isra’, Verse 39 To the end of Surat Al-Mu’minun, first edition July 2000, p. 244; capital emphasis ours)

    Ibn Kathir’s notes on S. 2:223 also help us to see the very graphic nature of the term farj:

    this refers to Al-Farj (THE VAGINA), as Ibn ‘Abbas, Mujahid and other scholars have stated. Therefore, anal sex is prohibited, as we will further emphasize afterwards, Allah willing …

    Ibn Jurayj (one of the reporters of the Hadith) said that Allah’s Messengers said …

    ((From the front or from behind, as long as it occurs IN THE FARJ (VAGINA).)) …

    Abu Bakr bin Ziyad Naysaburi reported that Isma’il bin Ruh said that he asked Malik bin Anas, “What do you say about having sex with women in the anus?” He said, “You are not an Arab? Does sex occur but in the place of pregnancy? Do it only IN THE FARJ (VAGINA).” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 1, Parts 1 and 2 (Surat Al-Fatihah to Verse 252 of Surat Al-Baqarah), first edition January 2000, pp. 618, 619, 622; capital emphasis ours)

    In responding to the Shia position regarding the permissibility of temporary marriages (mutah), this Sunni writer defines farj as:

    I’arat al-Furuj (Loaning of Vaginas)
    The Shi’ah books of fiqh carry a separate chapter entitled “I’arat al-Furuj.” This could literally be translated as “The Loaning of Vaginas.” … (Dr. Ahmad ‘Abdullah Salamah, Shi’ah Concept of Temporary Marriage (Mut’ah))

    Here is the final Muslim example showing that farj refers to the female organ:

    Narrated Basrah:
    A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet said: She will get the dower, for you made her VAGINA (farj) lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people, flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him. (Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2126)

    And here is how one lexical source defines the term:

    Fa-Ra-Jiim = To open, separate, cleave, split, enlarge, part, let a space between, make a room, comfort anything in, dispel cares. An opening, intervening space [gap or breach] between two things. Ex: Parting hind legs or intervening spaces between fingers.
    He opened, made room, ample space.
    Furijat – Cloven, split, rent, opened.
    Farjun (Pl. Furuj) – PUDENDA (SEX ORGAN); chastity, space between legs (of horse or mare), part/s of a person (male/female) INDECENT TO EXPOSE, EXTERNAL PORTIONS OF THE ORGANS OF GENERATION [OF A MALE/FEMALE]. ALSO THE POSTERIOR OF PUDENDUM because it is a place of opening, of between the legs.

    faraja vb. (1) perf. pass. 77:9

    farj n.m. (pl. furuj) 21:91, 23:5, 24:30, 24:31, 33:35, 50:6, 66:12, 70:29

    LL, V6, p: 143, 144, 145 (Project Root List; capital emphasis ours)

    Christian writer Abd al-Masih helps to put this in perspective. Commenting on S. 21:91, al-Masih notes:

    “Whoever reads verse 91 of Sura al-Anbiya’ 21 carefully could be embarrassed. It is scandalous how Muhammad and his spirit of revelation lift Mary up as the most important of all women, and at the same time tear away her veil of chastity. Her self-protection is not described in a euphemism, but is calculated brutally, as in a business deal:

    And she guraded her vagina [farj] so we breathed into her of our spirit. (Sura al-Anbiya’ 21:91)

    This revelation is not an honour, but an exposition. Maybe it was customary among Bedouins to speak contemptuously and carelessly about women. But this only shows the rule of Arabic men and their contempt for women. If the best of women is spoken about like this, what about others! The men are never written about like this. They remain covered, holier-than-thou and self-righteous.” (Abd al-Masih, Who Is The Spirit From Allah In Islam? [Light of Life, P.O. Box 13, A-9503, VILLACH AUSTRIA], pp. 46-47)

    He notes regarding S. 66:12:

    “The second problem is caused by the Arabic language. In Arabic, Allah does not say: ‘so we breathed into her of our spirit’, but ‘into him’. Who is it, into whom the spirit was breathed? The embryo ‘Isa? That is difficult to accept, for then ‘Isa would have existed in Mary’s womb already before the spirit was breathed into her. That would mean that Allah created ‘Isa beforehand or that he existed before he was conceived. Both options are out of the question for Islamic scholars.

    Who is it then, into whom the Spirit from Allah was breathed? IT IS ALMOST UNSPEAKABLE, but the last expression in the previous sentence, which is masculine in Arabic, IS THE EXPRESSION FOR MARY’S GENITALS.[43] The literal meaning of Allah’s statement in Arabic is then, ‘so we breathed into her vagina [farj] of our spirit.’ This turns the stomachs of some of our readers.

    Rudi Paret, the best translator of the Qur’an into German, confirms the meaning of this phrase in a footnote. This seems not only to us, but also to many Islamic scholars to be a blasphemy. Ibn Mas’ud went so far as to suggest that the Qur’anic text should be changed to read ‘so we breathed into her [Mary] of our spirit.’ It is comforting to see that there are Muslims who prefer the possibility of a fallible Qur’an to a blasphemy like this.

    Other commentators explain the expression into him as Mary’s heart or body, which are masculine in Arabic, but not mentioned in the text. These are nothing but attempts to cover up the problem, but the problem itself remains. The assumption that it was an unclean spirit that spoke through Muhammad is obvious. It is almost impossible to imagine that Muslims claim that Jibril himself did this. Here the false statement of an unclean spirit stands against the noble Holy Spirit.” (Ibid., pp. 53-54; capital emphasis ours)

    In the above indicated footnote, the author states:

    43. According to al-Nasafi: “in her vagina” (Madarik al-Tanzil, vol. 4, p. 272). (Ibid., p. 53)

    Like I said, anytime you pagans bark your blasphemies I will humiliate your filthy profit. So keep it up.

    Like

  26. Now let’s expose your demon’s heavenly whorehouse which makes playboy mention pale by comparison:

    Wherein both will be those (maidens) restraining their glances upon their husbands, whom no man or jinn yatmithhunna (HAS OPENED THEIR HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before them… Houris (beautiful, fair females) restrained in pavilions; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Whom no man or jinn yatmithhunna (HAS OPENED THEIR HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before them. S. 55:56, 72-74 Hilali-Khan

    Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards and maidens WITH SWELLING BREASTS, like of age, and a cup overflowing. S. 78:31-34 Arberry

    Thus, the Quran speaks of heavenly creatures who have swelling breasts and who shall be physically penetrated, or deflowered, by both men and jinn!

    Lest this child of Lucifer deny that the Quran describes Allah’s abode as a whore house we will cite some of Islam’s premier scholars to refute him:

    meaning, wide-eyed maidens WITH FULLY DEVELOPED BREASTS. Ibn ‘Abbas, Mujahid and others have said, …

    “This means ROUND BREASTS. They meant by this THAT THE BREASTS OF THESE GIRLS WILL BE FULLY ROUNDED AND NOT SAGGING, because they will be virgins, equal in age…” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), (Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur’an), First Edition: September 2000, Volume 10, pp. 333-334; capital emphasis ours)

    Interestingly, there is one Sunni Muslim writer that quotes certain Muslim authorities who admit that the Quran’s language here is quite erotic and that this particular reference even causes persons to get aroused. In response to the unfairness of men having up to 70 wives whereas women will only have one husband in paradise, Shaykh G.F. Haddad states:

    We do not know with certainty that there will be such a restriction on women even if the reverse would hardly be mentionable to a decent woman. A woman in the traditional world would and does consider it a horrible thing to say to her that “You can have all the men you want”! The Qur’an would never use inappropriate language. However, the Qur’an does mention that for the inhabitants of Paradise – male and female – {There wait on them immortal youths} (56:17), {There serve them youths of everlasting youth, whom, when you see them, you would take for scattered pearls} (76:19). If this does not make a believing woman happy then, as Imam al-Shafi`i said to the one WHO IS NOT MOVED BY EROTIC POETRY, “You have no feelings.” As for the believing men, as one of the Awliya said, some of them will need GHUSL just FOR HEARING THE VERSE {Same-age young-bosomed girls} (78:33). As for us hard-hearted analphabets we may read it and read it without effect. (Haddad, Sex with slaves and women’s rights; capital emphasis ours)

    Ghusl refers, in this specific context, to the ritual bathing of the body that a Muslim must perform after sexual intercourse or because of a seminal discharge. What the author is essentially saying is that Surah 78:33 can cause a person to be aroused to such an extent that he ends up having an emission!

    Another famous commentator, ar-Razi, stated in his Tafsir (Volume 8, p. 311) that:

    “The kawa`ib are the buxom girls (nawahid) whose breasts have become FULL (taka“abat) and ROUND (tafallakat).” (bold and capital emphasis ours)

    This accounts for why the following translations all read breasts in Q. 78:33:

    And young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; Hilali-Khan

    maidens with pears-shaped breasts who are of equal age (to their spouses) Muhammad Sarwar

    and girls with swelling breasts of the same age as themselves, Palmer

    And damsels with swelling breasts, their peers in age, Rodwell

    and [damsels] with swelling breasts, of equal age [with themselves], Sale

    Ibn Kathir gives a more fully detailed description of what these breasts look like:

    meaning, wide-eyed maidens WITH FULLY DEVELOPED BREASTS. Ibn ‘Abbas, Mujahid and others have said,

    “This means ROUND BREASTS. They meant by this THAT THE BREASTS OF THESE GIRLS WILL BE FULLY ROUNDED AND NOT SAGGING, because they will be virgins, equal in age…” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 10, Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur’an, pp. 333-334; capital emphasis ours)

    And here is what Ibn Kathir said of Q. 55:56:

    chaste females, wives restraining their glances, desiring none except their husbands, seeing them as the most beautiful men in Paradise. This was said by Ibn `Abbas, Qatadah, `Ata’ Al-Khurasani and Ibn Zayd. It was reported that one of these wives will say to her husband, “By Allah! I neither see anything in Paradise more handsome than you nor more beloved to me than you. So praise be to Allah Who made you for me and made me for you.” Allah said, …

    meaning they are delightful virgins of comparable age who never had sexual intercourse with anyone, whether from mankind or Jinns, before their husbands. This is also a proof that the believers among the Jinns will enter Paradise. Artat bin Al-Mundhir said, “Damrah bin Habib was asked if the Jinns will enter Paradise and he said, `Yes, and they will get married. The Jinns will have Jinn women and the humans will have female humans.’” Allah’s statement, …

    Then Allah describes these women for the proposed…

    Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Ibn Zayd and others said, “They are as pure as rubies and white as Marjan.” So here they described Marjan as pearls… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), (Surat Al-Jathiyah to the end of Surat Al-Munafiqun), First Edition: September 2000, Volume 9, pp. 400-401; capital emphasis ours)

    He also wrote the following regarding Q. 56:35-37:

    Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded that Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said…

    Anas said, “I asked, ‘O Allah’s Messenger! Will one be able to do that? He said,

    ((He will be given the strength OF A HUNDRED (MEN).))

    At-Tirmidhi also recorded it and said, “Sahih Gharib.” Abu Al-Qasim At-Tabarani recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah was asked, “O Allah’s Messenger! Will we have sexual intercourse with our wives in Paradise?” He said…

    ((The man will be able to have sexual intercourse WITH A HUNDRED VIRGINS IN ONE DAY.))

    Al-Hafiz Abu ‘Abdullah Al-Maqisi said, “In my view, the Hadith meets the criteria of the Sahih, and Allah knows best.” (Ibid., pp. 429-430; capital emphasis ours)

    The two Jalals noted in reference to Q. 56:36 that,

    and made them virgins, immaculate – every time their spouses enter them they find them virgins, nor is there ANY PAIN [OF DEFLORATION] – (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; capital emphasis ours)

    And regarding Q. 36:55 they say:

    Indeed today the inhabitants of Paradise are busy (read fi shughlin or fi shughulin), [oblivious] to what the inhabitants of the Fire are suffering, [busy] delighting in pleasures such AS DEFLOWERING VIRGINS – not busy with anything wearisome, as there is no toil in Paradise – rejoicing, blissful (fakihuna is a second predicate of inna, the first being fi shugulin, ‘busy’); (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; capital emphasis ours)

    And here is what the hadith compiler Ibn Majah stated about the sexual organs of the men and the maidens of paradise:

    4337. Abu ‘Umama (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Allah will not admit anyone in the Paradise but Allah, the Mighty and Glorious, will marry him with seventy two wives: two will be from virgins (haurine) with big eyes and seventy will be his inheritance from the people of the Hell-Fire (1). Everyone of them will have A PLEASANT VAGINA and HE (the man) WILL HAVE A SEXUAL ORGAN THAT DOES NOT BEND DOWN (during sexual intercourse).”

    Hisham b. Khalid says, “The words ‘out of his inheritance (due) from the denizens of the Fire’, many men who will enter the Fire and the inmates of the Paradise will inherit their wives just as Faraoh’s[sic] wife will be inherited (by the believer).”

    According to al-Zawa’id, its isnad has some controversy. Al-‘Ajali has declared Khalid b. Yazid b. Abi Malik reliable while Imam Ahmad, Ibn Mu’in, Abu Dawud, Nasa’i, Ibn Jarud Sahi, ‘Uqail etc., have declare[sic] Ahmad b. Salih al-Misri da’if. (Sunan Ibn-I-Majah (Imam Abu Abdullah Muhammad b. Yazid Ibn-I-Maja Al-Qazwini), English version by Muhammad Tufail Ansari [Kazi Publications, Lahore (Pakistan), 1st edition 1995], Chapter NO. XXXIX, “The Description of the Paradise”, Volume V, p. 546; capital emphasis ours)

    Commenting on the reason for Egyptian professor and columnist Farag Foda’s assassination, New York Times columnist Judith Miller writes:

    “About two weeks before his murder, he mocked what passed for intellectual discourse among Islamists by citing a recent sermon by Egypt’s most popular preacher, Abdel Hamid Kishk, a blind sheikh who constantly attacked both the government and its official religious establishment. Kishk had been telling his audience that Muslims who entered paradise would enjoy ETERNAL ERECTIONS and the company of young boys draped in earrings and necklaces. Some of the ulema, the religious scholars at al-Azhar, the government’s seat of Islamic learning had disagreed. Yes, they said, men in paradise would have erections, BUT MERELY PROTRACTED, NOT PERPETUAL. Other experts disputed the possibility of pederasty in paradise. ‘Is this what concerns Muslims at the end of the 20th century?’ Foda asked in a column in October magazine. ‘The world around us is busy with the conquest of space, genetic engineering and the wonders of the computer,’ while Muslim scholars, he wrote ‘in sadness and pain,’ were worried about sex in paradise. In a column published just before he was killed, Foda reported that the Tunisian government had videotaped militant Islamic leaders on their prayer rugs, unwilling to await paradise, making love to beautiful women here on earth. Meanwhile, Egyptian militants in Assyut were ordering believers not to eat eggplants and squash because of their resemblance to sexual organs. ‘The Group of Darkness are obsessed with sex,’ he wrote.” (Miller, God Has Ninety-Nine Names [A Touchstone Book, published by Simon & Schuster, 1997], pp. 26-27; capital emphasis ours)

    Keep barking like rabid dogs and I’ll keep humiliating your women raping profit for all to see.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. A fun exercise for the procrastinators among us: read through the above correspondence while listening to Yakety Sax.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Let’s be fair here,
    Don’t put muslims who have the right to answer the insult back with that filthy man who should be banned from writing.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. COMMENTS ARE NOW CLOSED.

    Liked by 2 people

Trackbacks

  1. Al-Isra and the “Temple” in the Islamic Sources: Response to Sam Shamoun, Part II – The Quran and Bible Blog
  2. Al-Isra and the “Temple” in the Islamic Sources: A Response to Sam Shamoun, Part II – Blogging Theology
%d bloggers like this: